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March 20, 2018 10:40 pm  #1


Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

It's official. If you watch TV over the air through an antenna, you'll likely need to do a rescan to keep receiving WIVB from Buffalo next month. For the first time, they ran a crawl over regular CBS programming that read as follows:

"Attention: WIVB Channel 4 will cease broadcasting on this frequency effective 4/16/2018. This station will be moving to a different frequency.  So if you use an antenna to watch TV for free, you may need to rescan your television set on 4/16/2018 to continue receiving WIVB programming. Cable and satellite viewers are not affected "

A Channel 4 engineer told me last month the plan was to start the change on April 23rd, but they must have moved it up a week. According to a FAQ on the station's website, there will be dual illumination starting on April 14th, with the old signal disappearing completely two days later. 

The good news for us in the GTA is that Channel 4 will be moving to the WNLO Channel 23 tower, which has one of the strongest signals into the city from across the lake. So hopefully, it should come in even better after the move. Channel 23 is home to the CW and "Bounce TV" on its 23.2 subcarrier and now it's adding a full power Channel 4 to the mix (and presumably its bizarre 4.4 subcarrier of Laff-TV, which for some reason also airs on one of WKBW's subs, as well.).

I'm not quite sure yet just how they plan to squeeze all those signals onto the same source or how that might affect both power and propagation, but my hope is for better reception here. Again, this only applies for those using an antenna.  

This is all part of the infamous repack, which saw many stations in the U.S. sell their frequencies back for millions of dollars to allow for increased cellphone space. The station involved will still show up at its regular Channel 4 spot on your TV, but not unless you scan it in on that date. There will be more to come, as others affected make the move. See the list below.

 

March 20, 2018 11:02 pm  #2


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

Just as a final extra to the above, the website TVanswers.org has revealed the rest of the upcoming changes in Buffalo. All of them are at least a year or two away.

Here's the list:

Station: WKBW-TV - ABC 7   http://tvanswers.org/images/abc.png

Market: Buffalo, NY 
Timeframe: Phase 8: January 18, 2020 - March 13, 2020
Station: WNED-TV - Public Television 17   http://tvanswers.org/images/pbs.png

Market: Buffalo, NY 
Timeframe: Phase 8: January 18, 2020 - March 13, 2020

Station: WNYB - Total Christian Television network 26   
Market: Buffalo, NY 
Timeframe: Phase 4: June 22, 2019 - August 2, 2019

Station: WNYO-TV - My Network TV 49   
Market: Buffalo, NY 
Timeframe: Phase 8: January 18, 2020 - March 13, 2020

Station: WPXJ-TV - ION Media Networks 51   http://tvanswers.org/images/ion.png

Market: Buffalo, NY 
Timeframe: Phase 4: June 22, 2019 - August 2, 2019
Station: WUTV - FOX 29   http://tvanswers.org/images/fox.png

Market: Buffalo, NY 
Timeframe: Phase 4: June 22, 2019 - August 2, 2019

     Thread Starter
 

March 21, 2018 12:09 pm  #3


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

Thanks for the post! Still lots of time it looks like except WIVB.  Im guessing the current WIVB tower will just be standing idle on the hill in Colden as I read they are moving to the Grand Island site now? 

 

March 21, 2018 2:28 pm  #4


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

The reception in the GTA should improve for 2 reasons.  The move from Colden to Grand Island will bring the transmitter about 50 kilometres closer.  Also moving to the old UHF band (channels 14 and up) improves signal strength.  Many stations in large US cities have migrated from the VHF band (2 to 13) because of complaints of poor reception after the analogue/digital conversion occurred several years ago. It became a big issue because the use of antennas is quite high in less affluent areas of large American cities.

 

March 21, 2018 4:15 pm  #5


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

Chuck99 wrote:

The move from Colden to Grand Island will bring the transmitter about 50 kilometres closer. Also moving to the old UHF band (channels 14 and up) improves signal strength. Many stations in large US cities have migrated from the VHF band (2 to 13) because of complaints of poor reception after the analogue/digital conversion occurred several years ago. It became a big issue because the use of antennas is quite high in less affluent areas of large American cities.

I will agree with you on point one, and take slight issue with point two. The TX site is closer to T.O., which can only help. But I believe WIVB is already on UHF, currently on channel 39. Owner Nexstar sold the frequency for wireless use and will now piggyback off of Channel 23, which sits  - and will continue to stay - on channel 32. 

It should be interesting to see how much stronger the signal is. I'm not sure if the output of WIVB will be exactly the same, but I'm hoping both will continue to put an excellent signal into Toronto. 

All that said, if anyone from Buffalo who uses an antenna is reading this, I've always been curious - how well do the Toronto stations come in south of the border? They're not aimed that way, of course, but the signal off the CN Tower is pretty strong and I wonder if our neighbours in the Queen City can get the digital versions of CBLT, CFTO, Global or City TV. (I'm guessing CTV Two is probably out of the question.)

     Thread Starter
 

March 21, 2018 7:39 pm  #6


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

RadioActive wrote:

Chuck99 wrote:

The move from Colden to Grand Island will bring the transmitter about 50 kilometres closer. Also moving to the old UHF band (channels 14 and up) improves signal strength. Many stations in large US cities have migrated from the VHF band (2 to 13) because of complaints of poor reception after the analogue/digital conversion occurred several years ago. It became a big issue because the use of antennas is quite high in less affluent areas of large American cities.

I will agree with you on point one, and take slight issue with point two. The TX site is closer to T.O., which can only help. But I believe WIVB is already on UHF, currently on channel 39. Owner Nexstar sold the frequency for wireless use and will now piggyback off of Channel 23, which sits  - and will continue to stay - on channel 32. 

It should be interesting to see how much stronger the signal is. I'm not sure if the output of WIVB will be exactly the same, but I'm hoping both will continue to put an excellent signal into Toronto. 

All that said, if anyone from Buffalo who uses an antenna is reading this, I've always been curious - how well do the Toronto stations come in south of the border? They're not aimed that way, of course, but the signal off the CN Tower is pretty strong and I wonder if our neighbours in the Queen City can get the digital versions of CBLT, CFTO, Global or City TV. (I'm guessing CTV Two is probably out of the question.)

I stand corrected.  I do not have an outdoor antenna and the title of this thread does refer to the station as Channel 4.  CTV Two/Barrie now broadcasts on Channel 35 from a transmitter near Stoney Creek.  A map at this link:  https://nocable.org/browse-stations/callsign/chcj-dt-hamilton-on  shows coverage extending to the Buffalo area.

 

March 21, 2018 8:53 pm  #7


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

You're right. I'd completely forgotten about the signal on channel 35. I'm sorry to hear you don't have an antenna. I realize not everyone can have one, depending on where they're living. But there's a lot to see - for free - OTA, and even if you're on cable or satellite, it's nice to have.

Especially if you hate simsub!

     Thread Starter
 

March 21, 2018 10:55 pm  #8


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

Unfortunately, I live in a condominium, so an indoor antenna would be the only option for OTA.  Surprisingly, I have heard of at least one person, in a different building, who receives a large number of channels with an indoor antenna, but I think the number varies wildly depending on height and location.  If you live in a good location for OTA reception, you certainly have an abundant number of entertainment choices with an outdoor antenna and a good internet connection.

 

March 22, 2018 8:56 am  #9


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

While CHCJ's signal does make it into Western New York, a better option might be CKVP ch 42 [ch 29 Spring 2020] in Fonthill, which I believe is a few miles north of Welland.

 

March 22, 2018 12:14 pm  #10


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

Speaking of CHCJ which is a fairly hard to receive signal here in the west end GTA mostlikely due to the height of their tower,  has anyone had luck with the CKVR (VHF 10) from Barrie in the GTA?   

 

March 22, 2018 1:56 pm  #11


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

markow202 wrote:

has anyone had luck with the CKVR (VHF 10) from Barrie in the GTA?   

Occasionally. When it does come in it's of the backside of our UHF only antenna here in Stouffville.

 

March 22, 2018 3:18 pm  #12


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

mace wrote:

While CHCJ's signal does make it into Western New York, a better option might be CKVP ch 42 [ch 29 Spring 2020] in Fonthill, which I believe is a few miles north of Welland.

You are correct.  This link  https://nocable.org/browse-stations/callsign/ckvp-dt-fonthill-on  shows the CKVP signal carrying a little further into Western New York.  I am actually surprised Bell decided to build two transmitters south of Lake Ontario.  Just prior to building the CHCJ transmitter, the CRTC gave the company permission to increase its antenna height and power to around 150,000 watts.  There seems to be a great deal of overlap in coverage with CKVP and keep in mind complaints of an inconsistent signal from Barrie by Cogeco Cable was the reason the request was made to the CRTC to build in the Niagara Peninsula.  I am sure Cogeco has no problem getting a reliable signal from Channel 35. 

Growing up in Welland, my dad installed an outdoor antenna with a 40 foot tower and we received a fairly good signal from CKVR Barrie, CKCO Kitchener and WICU Erie, PA.  Today, in the digital era, reception on those stations would likely be spotty at best.
 

 

March 22, 2018 3:23 pm  #13


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

markow202 wrote:

Speaking of CHCJ which is a fairly hard to receive signal here in the west end GTA mostlikely due to the height of their tower,  has anyone had luck with the CKVR (VHF 10) from Barrie in the GTA?   

I can get CKVR's Barrie signal, but only when I turn my rotor all the way north. And then, of course, I lose all the Buffalo stations. Needless to say, I almost never watch CKVR.  

     Thread Starter
 

March 22, 2018 4:00 pm  #14


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

Chuck99 wrote:

mace wrote:

While CHCJ's signal does make it into Western New York, a better option might be CKVP ch 42 [ch 29 Spring 2020] in Fonthill, which I believe is a few miles north of Welland.

You are correct.  This link  https://nocable.org/browse-stations/callsign/ckvp-dt-fonthill-on  shows the CKVP signal carrying a little further into Western New York.  I am actually surprised Bell decided to build two transmitters south of Lake Ontario.  Just prior to building the CHCJ transmitter, the CRTC gave the company permission to increase its antenna height and power to around 150,000 watts.  There seems to be a great deal of overlap in coverage with CKVP and keep in mind complaints of an inconsistent signal from Barrie by Cogeco Cable was the reason the request was made to the CRTC to build in the Niagara Peninsula.  I am sure Cogeco has no problem getting a reliable signal from Channel 35. 

Growing up in Welland, my dad installed an outdoor antenna with a 40 foot tower and we received a fairly good signal from CKVR Barrie, CKCO Kitchener and WICU Erie, PA.  Today, in the digital era, reception on those stations would likely be spotty at best.
 

Back in the analog days, DX reports came out from South Florida of CKVR 3 Barrie and CKCO-2 Wiarton being picked up.  

 

March 22, 2018 4:53 pm  #15


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

Back in the analog era in Welland, I briefly received TV signals from Toledo, OH and Tampa, FL.  On humid summer nights, I often received a fairly watchable signal from CFPL London.

 

March 22, 2018 5:17 pm  #16


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

My regular gets in middle-North York when conditions were right included all the Erie, Pa. network stations, the UHF outlets from Cleveland, most of the Rochester majors, a few from Syracuse and a good number from Detroit. And occasionally, when things really heated up, a variety of stations from Florida to Denver and even Wyoming. (I once stayed up until 3 AM in those pre-VCR days to confirm WCBS New York.) 

Those were the days, but with digital, they're long gone.

     Thread Starter
 

March 24, 2018 6:32 pm  #17


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

From the WIVB Website:WIVB/WNLO Channel Sharing

FAQWhat is channel sharing?Channel sharing is a process of sharing multiple television stations on one transmission frequency. Because of the FCC spectrum repack auction, WIVB and WNLO will share WNLO’s RF channel. WIVB’s RF channel will be relinquished. WIVB will continue to display as 4.1 and WNLO will continue to display as 23.1 on your TV.Why the change?The FCC held a spectrum auction to help improve and expand wireless service across the country. This resulted in some stations voluntarily selling their frequency and others relocating to a new frequency. This repacking of the TV spectrum will create room for new wireless technology.Will I need to do anything to continue watching WIVB and WNLO?In general, no. You will not need any new or additional equipment to continue receiving WIVB and WNLO. You may, however, need to perform a channel scan on your TV or converter box. This function can be found in the menu of your TV or converter box.When will this transition take place?For WIVB and WNLO, the transition will take place on April 16th. On April 14th, WIVB will begin transmission on WNLO’s frequency. During the period of April 14th-16th, you may see WIVB show up twice on your TV. This is completely normal and expected. Early in the morning of April 16th, WIVB’s transmission on RF channel 39 will be turned off.I watch on cable or satellite.

What does this mean for me?Cable and satellite subscribers will not need to do anything to continue receiving WIVB and WNLO. Our current agreements with local providers will continue after the transition is complete. Your provider will make the necessary adjustments to ensure that you continue to receive WIVB and WNLO programming.Where can I find more info about this transition? More information about the FCC spectrum repack, visit tvanswers.org

Last edited by tvguy (March 24, 2018 6:33 pm)

 

April 14, 2018 2:07 pm  #18


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

Looks like WIVB is now on the new tower, Stonger signal in the east end of Toronto.

 

April 14, 2018 8:51 pm  #19


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

Yes, they said they were going to turn on the new signal April 14th, and turn off the old one on April 16th, for testing purposes and to make sure everyone had time to make the adjustment. And you're right, the new signal is, as predicted, much stronger into the GTA than ever. (I'm getting perfect 100s on my meters for both signal strength and signal quality, which has never happened before with WIVB. Finally, a reliable full time signal here in northern North York!)

I also notice that there's a dual illumination of Laff on 4.2 and 4.4 - although there never was a 4.2 before this change. I still wish there was an explanation for why this particular subcarrier is on both WIVB and WKBW. Usually, it's one station to a market.

     Thread Starter
 

April 15, 2018 5:53 am  #20


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

As far as I am aware, this is the only transmitter in the area with 2 1080i outputs.

Last edited by andysradio (April 15, 2018 6:25 am)

 

April 15, 2018 9:39 pm  #21


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

So what will happen with channel 39?

(Incidentally, the signal on 23 is way better than 39 in downtown Toronto (I'm on the second floor, so low down).
 

 

April 16, 2018 11:05 am  #22


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

Just checked today the station information on my tv.  Its showing it as being UHF 32 and a good signal (funny enough here in etobicoke I had always a decent to good WIVB signal) however I didnt have to re-scan.  My tv is a brand new Samsung.

Edit:  I went and checked my older tv and it had to be re-scanned to pick up the new signal.

Last edited by markow202 (April 16, 2018 11:07 am)

 

April 16, 2018 12:12 pm  #23


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

I had an easy time with the rescanning on all my TVs, but I have two Channel Master DVR+s, which record over the air television. One of them took to the change easily. The other scanned in the new frequency fine, but continued to display the old one on Channel 39. No matter what I tried, it would not let go of the old spot and there was nothing on 4.1 Monday morning.  

I was eventually forced to do a complete rescan of the entire machine and it finally did the right thing. I hope this isn't a sign of things to come, because as the second post in this thread shows, there are a lot of these changes still to come over the next few years.  

     Thread Starter
 

April 16, 2018 4:32 pm  #24


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

Most channels, both in the GTA and western NY, will be changing their RF frequencies and some even swapping antennas due to the repack. Toronto should benefit with stronger signals from most of the Buffalo stations.

AVSForums has more info:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-local-hdtv-info-reception/137214-buffalo-ny-hdtv-257.html

Here are the changes (1st column is the new assignment);

WNY;
36....14....WUTV.......Sinclair
15....15....WBNF-CD..HME Equity Fund   
32....32....WNLO.......Nexstar
33....33....WGRZ......Tegna
34....38....WKBW.....Scripps-Howard
xx....39....WIVB......Nexstar   
31....43....WNED.....PBS
16....49....WNYO.....Sinclair
7.....7......WBBZ......ME TV
24....23....WPXJ......Ion Media
5.....26....WNYB.....Tri-State

Ontario;
8......9......CFTO....CTV
19....19....CICA....TVO
20....20....CBLT....CBC
25....25....CBLFT...CBC Fr
26....40....CJMT....OMNI-2
17....41....CIII....Global
30....44....CITY....CITYTV
18....47....CFMT....OMNI-1
15....15....CHCH....Channel 0 ?
35....35....CHCJ....CTV-2 ?
14....36....CITS....Xroads
29....42....CKVP....CTV-2

Last edited by Hrick (April 16, 2018 4:41 pm)

 

April 17, 2018 9:25 am  #25


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

When all of the channel re-shuffling is completed sometime in 2020, CTV2-Welland. CITY,WNED, WNLO, WIVB, WGRZ, WKBW, CTV2-Hamilton and WUTV will all be crammed into ch 29-36. I am not a technical person, but with all these stations clumped so closely together, will this not create reception problems for OTA viewers on both sides of the border?

 

April 17, 2018 9:57 am  #26


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

mace wrote:

When all of the channel re-shuffling is completed sometime in 2020, CTV2-Welland. CITY,WNED, WNLO, WIVB, WGRZ, WKBW, CTV2-Hamilton and WUTV will all be crammed into ch 29-36. I am not a technical person, but with all these stations clumped so closely together, will this not create reception problems for OTA viewers on both sides of the border?

I'm really rusty on this stuff but I doubt it'll be a significant issue for most OTA viewers. One way to mitigate the impact of consecutive ATSC channel usage is to make sure all stations broadcast from the same tower - ideally at roughly the same power. While this may turn out to be the case in Toronto, it doesn't help your example where the Buffalo channels aren't expected to co-locate their transmitters. Still, I don't think a large percentage of OTA viewers will be affected by it. Here's the best article I could find on the subject. Admittedly it's quite technical.

Also, just to muddy the waters a little further, ATSC 1.0 (our current OTA technology) uses 8VSB as a modulation scheme. ATSC 3.0 moves over to OFDM. I know, lots of alphabet soup... As I recall, OFDM copes very well with tight channel spacing - perhaps more so than 8VSB. Again, I'm rusty on this having not worked in RF Engineering for a long time.

Last edited by Tim Brown 2016 (April 17, 2018 10:22 am)

 

April 17, 2018 2:08 pm  #27


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

mace wrote:

When all of the channel re-shuffling is completed sometime in 2020, CTV2-Welland. CITY,WNED, WNLO, WIVB, WGRZ, WKBW, CTV2-Hamilton and WUTV will all be crammed into ch 29-36. I am not a technical person, but with all these stations clumped so closely together, will this not create reception problems for OTA viewers on both sides of the border?

As I explained in an earlier thread, the CTV-2 Welland signal is redundant, since the CTV-2 Hamilton signal is strong enough to be received in the Fort Erie/Buffalo area.  It reminds of the crowded FM dial.  The spacing of some FM signals, such as 97.3 Toronto, 97.7 St. Catharines, 104.1 Buffalo and 104.5 Toronto will make it very difficult to implement new technology such as HD radio.  If any of those stations tried to broadcast in HD, it would create significant interference on an adjacent channel.  Likewise, on the AM band, if AM 640 tried to broadcast in HD, it would practically knock 610 in St. Catharines off the air.

 

April 17, 2018 5:01 pm  #28


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

 A couple of quick observations.  ATSC 1 or ATSC 3 is not comparable to HD Radio.   For those of us in the GTA who received WIVB prior to Monday, or currently receive WNED, both stations have fairly weak signals, which were first adjacent channels to much higher powered stations transmitting from the CN Tower.   in the Case of WIVB - RF 39 it was first adjacent to CJMT RF 40 Toronto.  WNED RF 43 is first adjacent to CIty RF 44.   The tuners in the current generation of HD TVs, are excellent both in terms of first adjacent rejection and sensitivity.  We have some older Bell Satellite receivers which have ATSC tuners.  Those receivers function fairly well, distinguishing the weak Buffalo signals from first adjacent Toronto signals.   But the Bell receivers are "no contest" when compared with the recent vintage "super" tuners in LG HD sets.   Where am I going with this?   The repack will actually places  Buffalo stations clustered together on the dial, and the high powered Toronto stations will be clustered - fewer high powered first adjacencies - with the exception of City on 30 and WNED on 31.   One would also expect that WNED propagation on Ch. 31 will be better for viewers than current Ch. 43.  WNED also goes from 156 KW, to 333 KW.  So that's a significant power increase.  Toronto viewers may experience reception problems with WUTV - which will move to WIVB's (old) tower in Colden (from Grand Island).   WUTV will go from 1000 KW down to 800 kw, but the Ehaat will go to 1362 feet (higher elevation).   All of that is to say, if you received a decent signal from WIVB on RF 39 (790 kw) from colden (Despite CJMT on Ch. 40)- reception for WUTV on RF 36 from Colden should be comparable - or slightly better.

Last edited by tvguy (April 17, 2018 5:03 pm)

 

April 17, 2018 6:46 pm  #29


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

AM 640 might be able to get away with IBOC so far as 610 is concerned, I would think. But if 590 Toronto and St. Catharines 610 both do this, it would be, um, interesting. IBOC on AM is going nowhere fast in the US, and I have a gut feeling it won't go far in Canada, at all.

What's happening in the US is AM stations are getting low-powered translators on FM, all 250 watts and under. This has happened to a much lesser degree in Canada (1580 CKDO and 630 CFCO Chatham are examples).

I wonder if translator-level low power is enough to produce meaningful sideband channels. The rather low-power 850-watt 101.3 South Asian station in Toronto has IBOC. I don't have a digital receiver but it would be interesting to know if its sidebands have proven fruitful for whatever resides there.
 

Last edited by Saul (April 17, 2018 6:46 pm)

 

April 22, 2018 12:59 pm  #30


Re: Buffalo's Channel 4 Officially Changing Its OTA Frequency On April 16

Saul wrote:

I wonder if translator-level low power is enough to produce meaningful sideband channels. The rather low-power 850-watt 101.3 South Asian station in Toronto has IBOC. I don't have a digital receiver but it would be interesting to know if its sidebands have proven fruitful for whatever resides there.
 

I have an IBOC radio on a BMW and the digital HD radio channels on 101.3 work pretty good.  Have no problem receiving them in Oakville and even most of Burlington.  Only area of the GTA with no reception is anywhere near Milton but of course that's because of the low power local MyFM Milton station using the same frequency.

I never could understand why ISED even authorized use of 101.3 for the MyFM station in Milton.  Surprisingly enough, I actually get the South Asian IBOC signal kick in and bump 101.3 MyFM off in certain spots RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR studios in Milton  LOL!  Imagine not being able to listen to a radio station when parked right in front of their studios.

Last edited by PwrSurge (April 22, 2018 1:08 pm)