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Tue Apr 3 12:15 pm  #1


CIDC 103.5

Here's the tower for Evanov Radio's CIDC-FM 103.5 Orangeville. 30,7000 Watts at 624 feet from a site a few miles east of Orangeville. They are about 35 miles NW of Toronto. The pictures were taken by a friend of mine who lives in about 10-15 minutes away.

Apparently there is some confusion, as the address of record Orangeville City Hall has for CIDC is the old tower site they moved off of in 2000 to come to this site. The old site is supposedly back up, but I didn't see any FM bays on it. I don't know if any of this confusion is because my friend misunderstood something or not


http://i66.tinypic.com/ri6n95.jpg


 

 

Tue Apr 3 1:35 pm  #2


Re: CIDC 103.5

The view and elevation from this site is enormous which gives them a good broad coverage area however, as they complain its not good enough for downtown Toronto.

 

 

Tue Apr 3 1:38 pm  #3


Re: CIDC 103.5

markow202 wrote:

The view and elevation from this site is enormous which gives them a good broad coverage area however, as they complain its not good enough for downtown Toronto.

 

Is it really that bad? The 60dbu looks like it encompasses all of Toronto.

I emailed the morning guy, Scott Fox with a clip of the signal and his reply was "Interesting how radio works. I can't hear it in my garage but you can hear it in Pennsylvania!"

     Thread Starter
 

Tue Apr 3 2:11 pm  #4


Re: CIDC 103.5

markow202 wrote:

The view and elevation from this site is enormous which gives them a good broad coverage area however, as they complain its not good enough for downtown Toronto.

 

It all depends on where you are in Toronto. Out in Scarborough (and possibly other parts)
103.3 out of Buffalo likes to cut in.

 

Tue Apr 3 2:13 pm  #5


Re: CIDC 103.5

RadioPaulPA wrote:

Is it really that bad? The 60dbu looks like it encompasses all of Toronto.

The issue is receiver front end desense (inter-modulation) caused by the stations on the CN Tower and First Canadian Place. That's a lot of RF power.

 

Tue Apr 3 2:15 pm  #6


Re: CIDC 103.5

Tim Brown 2016 wrote:

RadioPaulPA wrote:

Is it really that bad? The 60dbu looks like it encompasses all of Toronto.

The issue is receiver front end desense (inter-modulation) caused by the stations on the CN Tower and First Canadian Place. That's a lot of RF power.

You know, im still wondering the CN effects on people living near it in condos and working around.

 

Tue Apr 3 2:20 pm  #7


Re: CIDC 103.5

markow202 wrote:

You know, im still wondering the CN effects on people living near it in condos and working around.

I wouldn't live down there - even if I could afford to.
 

Last edited by Tim Brown 2016 (Tue Apr 3 2:25 pm)

 

Thu Apr 5 5:38 am  #8


Re: CIDC 103.5

Scott Fybush who writes a blog called Northeast Radio Watch would describe the CIDC signal in Toronto as a rim shot.

 

Fri Apr 6 1:49 pm  #9


Re: CIDC 103.5

RadioPaulPA wrote:

markow202 wrote:

The view and elevation from this site is enormous which gives them a good broad coverage area however, as they complain its not good enough for downtown Toronto.

 

Is it really that bad? The 60dbu looks like it encompasses all of Toronto.

I emailed the morning guy, Scott Fox with a clip of the signal and his reply was "Interesting how radio works. I can't hear it in my garage but you can hear it in Pennsylvania!"

That's because there's a huge difference in land elevation between their Orangeville area transmitter site (approx 460m or 1500 ft. ASL) v.s. downtown Toronto (approx 80m or 260 ft. ASL at Union Station).  With this along with all the downtown skyscrapers, that 60dbu signal gets cut down pretty quickly in downtown Toronto as LoS is blocked in most areas.

 

Fri Apr 6 2:03 pm  #10


Re: CIDC 103.5

PwrSurge wrote:

RadioPaulPA wrote:

markow202 wrote:

The view and elevation from this site is enormous which gives them a good broad coverage area however, as they complain its not good enough for downtown Toronto.

 

Is it really that bad? The 60dbu looks like it encompasses all of Toronto.

I emailed the morning guy, Scott Fox with a clip of the signal and his reply was "Interesting how radio works. I can't hear it in my garage but you can hear it in Pennsylvania!"

That's because there's a huge difference in land elevation between their Orangeville area transmitter site (approx 460m or 1500 ft. ASL) v.s. downtown Toronto (approx 80m or 260 ft. ASL at Union Station).  With this along with all the downtown skyscrapers, that 60dbu signal gets cut down pretty quickly in downtown Toronto as LoS is blocked in most areas.

This reminds me of something.

About a month back I had two radio tuners in the same location at home. One  had an amplified indoor antenna and the other one a wire hooked up to the FM antenna terminal. With the wire I had a pretty steady signal of the Cobourg classic rock station at 107.9  for a few days but with the amplified antenna I was getting the Hamilton On rock station and could not lock in the Cobourg station even after adjustments. I live in Pickering.

Same frequency 107.9. Two diffrenmt stations coming in quite clear but the one with apparently inferior antenna picking up the more difficult signal ?
 

Last edited by Fitz (Sat Apr 7 7:09 am)


Cool Airchecks and More:
http://www.lettheuniverseanswer.com/
 

Mon Sep 10 6:14 pm  #11


Re: CIDC 103.5

Cant find anything on google yet as to their recent application for frequency/tower moves with Proud FM 

 

Mon Sep 10 7:17 pm  #12


Re: CIDC 103.5

no decision yet.  maybe in the next month-ish.  it is a detailed and nuanced issue with many complex twists and turns, therefore, the crtc will i'm sure put all the time and consideration into their decision as necessary ;)

 

Mon Sep 10 8:59 pm  #13


Re: CIDC 103.5

If they move back to Orangeville can we have a through back to Dynamic Country? 

 

Mon Sep 10 9:00 pm  #14


Re: CIDC 103.5

I really do hope this time they are getting the green light by CRTC, considering numerous failed attempts in the past years. Evanov doesn’t have even a proper station serving Toronto well compared to major players (Bell,Rogers,Corus,Newcap), such as Jewel 88.5 targeting Newmarket and Barrie, suffering reception of Z103.5 in downtown and eastside, also Proud FM only aiming downtown Toronto. Moving CIDC back to Orangeville itself fuifills the need of the long-time request by the Commisions (probably a brand new Orangeville-oriented station), while turning CIRR into a strong-powered signal from FCP (possibly future Z103.5 site), HD2 (possibly HD feed of Proud FM). Do anyone believe that Evanov will swap the historic-CIDC and CIRR callsign to new signals if they are really being approved?

 

Tue Sep 11 11:13 am  #15


Re: CIDC 103.5

A few months ago, the Commission denied an application for a comparatively small power increase at Indie 88. One of the reasons for the denial was the Commission wanted to give the new station on 106.5 time to establish itself first.

Using logic (always a risky thing), how can the Commission approve these applications?

 

Tue Sep 11 12:37 pm  #16


Re: CIDC 103.5

Adrian106072 wrote:

I really do hope this time they are getting the green light by CRTC, considering numerous failed attempts in the past years. Evanov doesn’t have even a proper station serving Toronto well compared to major players (Bell,Rogers,Corus,Newcap), such as Jewel 88.5 targeting Newmarket and Barrie, suffering reception of Z103.5 in downtown and eastside, also Proud FM only aiming downtown Toronto. Moving CIDC back to Orangeville itself fuifills the need of the long-time request by the Commisions (probably a brand new Orangeville-oriented station), while turning CIRR into a strong-powered signal from FCP (possibly future Z103.5 site), HD2 (possibly HD feed of Proud FM). Do anyone believe that Evanov will swap the historic-CIDC and CIRR callsign to new signals if they are really being approved?

Evanov doesnt have a Toronto license such as Rogers, Corus, Newcap etc thats why.  
 

 

Tue Sep 11 1:26 pm  #17


Re: CIDC 103.5

markow202 wrote:

Evanov doesnt have a Toronto license such as Rogers, Corus, Newcap etc thats why.  
 

Corus owns Edge 102. Are they a proper Toronto licensed radio station?

 

Tue Sep 11 4:05 pm  #18


Re: CIDC 103.5

Radiowiz wrote:

markow202 wrote:

Evanov doesnt have a Toronto license such as Rogers, Corus, Newcap etc thats why.  
 

Corus owns Edge 102. Are they a proper Toronto licensed radio station?

True, perhaps it was easier to push thru a Brampton station which is well part of the GTA vs out in dufferin county Orangeville that takes 45 mins to get to. 

 

Tue Sep 11 7:47 pm  #19


Re: CIDC 103.5

markow202 wrote:

Evanov doesnt have a Toronto license such as Rogers, Corus, Newcap etc thats why.  
 

Actually CIRR is a Toronto Licence, which from what I can see, should solve their issue.   They are moving around frequencies they own or adjacent channel first rights from their latest approach.   What is programmed on 103.5, is likely to remain.   

Under their latest proposal
CIRR will move to 103.5 giving that station power worth listening to without static. 
CIDC will move to a new first adjacency 103.7, moving their tower, and making the pattern pull away from Toronto, but cover the market they are to be serving (Orangeville).    Also being first adjacency, will ensure targeting Toronto will be near impossible with it.  I'm betting, they will do a format to match the market, because I just can't see them running it as a dance chr targeting that area.    My bets are a rock station, or a country similar to some of their others. 

I don't agree with how they operate, but this application does have hope, and likely acceptable to the CRTC if the concern is truly about targeting the area they should be. 

It's not going to take major dollars away from the market, and to be honest, isn't taking away a frequency from anyone else.   No one could use it currently but them. 

 

Wed Sep 12 11:13 am  #20


Re: CIDC 103.5

radiokid wrote:

markow202 wrote:

Evanov doesnt have a Toronto license such as Rogers, Corus, Newcap etc thats why.  
 

Actually CIRR is a Toronto Licence, which from what I can see, should solve their issue.   They are moving around frequencies they own or adjacent channel first rights from their latest approach.   What is programmed on 103.5, is likely to remain.   

Under their latest proposal
CIRR will move to 103.5 giving that station power worth listening to without static. 
CIDC will move to a new first adjacency 103.7, moving their tower, and making the pattern pull away from Toronto, but cover the market they are to be serving (Orangeville).    Also being first adjacency, will ensure targeting Toronto will be near impossible with it.  I'm betting, they will do a format to match the market, because I just can't see them running it as a dance chr targeting that area.    My bets are a rock station, or a country similar to some of their others. 

I don't agree with how they operate, but this application does have hope, and likely acceptable to the CRTC if the concern is truly about targeting the area they should be. 

It's not going to take major dollars away from the market, and to be honest, isn't taking away a frequency from anyone else.   No one could use it currently but them. 

Using frequency 103.7 could it not be a problem?  Wouldnt it be 103.9 which CIRR currently is?  Their second problem I predict if this goes thru and 103.5 moves back to where it should be "orangeville" is that station wont be doing well later on.  There already is Country 105 serving that entire area with a massive signal in that format. 
 

 

Wed Sep 12 11:24 am  #21


Re: CIDC 103.5

The CRTC (still) considers the city of licence for CFNY-FM to be Brampton.   Below, is the licence renewal that ended in 2017.  After the Allen Brothers' brush with the legal system, in around 1978/1979, the station was literally auctioned off by the receiver/manager of the assets and  QC based Mutual Broadcasting (aka Radio Mutuel) owned the radio station.  I believe that Michel Arpin (a former CRTC commissioner) was a key executive at the QC company who was able to get approval of the move to CN Tower when the station was sold to Selkirk Broadcasting in 1983.  But the approval for the move to CN Tower may have occurred just before the licence transfer.  In 1985 the CRTC took issue in the Selkirk licence renewal, as to "how" poorly CFNY served Brampton with spoken word programming.  In subsequent renewals, the references to service to Brampton seemed to disappear.....but it is still a Brampton "city of licence" station.Ottawa, 24 August 2012Corus Radio Company
Brampton, OntarioApplication 2012-0025-3, received 25 January 2012
Public hearing in the National Capital Region
19 June 2012
CFNY-FM Brampton – Licence renewalThe Commission renews the broadcasting licence for the English-language commercial radio station CFNY-FM Brampton from 1 December 2012 to 31 August 2017. This short-term licence renewal will allow for a review of the licensee’s compliance with the Radio Regulations, 1986 and with its conditions of licence at an earlier date.Introduction1.    The Commission received an application by Corus Radio Company (Corus) to renew the broadcasting licence for the English-language commercial radio programming undertaking CFNY-FM Brampton, which expires 30 November 2012.=12px1 The Commission received interventions in support of the application, and one intervention that provided comments. The public record of this proceeding is available on the Commission’s website at www.crtc.gc.ca under “Public Proceedings.”

 

Wed Sep 12 11:52 am  #22


Re: CIDC 103.5

There's a lot of this location finagling going on in Toronto. And for some reason, Corus stations seem to be right in the middle of nearly all of them.

Q107, for instance, is actually supposed to be "serve" North York. And CFMJ, aka GNR 640 is licenced to Richmond Hill, from whence its predecessors CHOG and CFGM originated. I can't remember the last time 640 dealt with anything that happens in so-called Rich Man's Hill. 

And yes, I did just use whence in a sentence, possibly for the last time ever. 

 

Wed Sep 12 1:42 pm  #23


Re: CIDC 103.5

@RA   at the risk of sounding like i'm defending corus, they are simply a victim of their purchasing behaviour.  q107, cfny, and gnr were all picked up in the 90s, as was cing "burlington" in a different deal.  those stations carried a legacy of toronto-centric programming long before the gta was created... unlike what they did in woodstock by moving the station both physically and conceptually into london.  corus did get slapped for that one.

 

Wed Sep 12 2:36 pm  #24


Re: CIDC 103.5

I just found it interesting that all the affected stations seem to be those owned by Corus. But you're right - they were "out of licence area" long before Corus came calling. Odd coincidence, I suppose.