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June 25, 2018 1:08 pm  #31


Re: CKNT is on the air!

How are these "night" power outputs setup anyways in summer/winter and in general?  Time setup on transmitter for it to reduce?  i.e 8pm daily 

 

June 25, 2018 1:14 pm  #32


Re: CKNT is on the air!

navaidstech wrote:

markow202 wrote:

RadioActive wrote:

According to Canadian Radio News, that's not the location either.

Check out this post from October 19, 2017:

New transmitter site approved for CKNT 960 Mississauga

http://i64.tinypic.com/r107b4.jpg

Oh ok.  Being AM I wonder if its a new single tower or something else.  I remember the airport 1280AM CFYZ back in the day used a "umbrella" type antenna atop a maintenance building of theirs.  
 

It's a fibreglass whip with a Valcosphere on top. It is located in a trucking yard, on the east side of the Husky gas station (Courtney/Kennedy). You really can't miss it as you're driving on Courtneypark.
In the picture above, you have to go past the gate on the right (good luck, it is motorized with security staff on site), then make a left and go all the way to the end. The transmitter shack and the antenna are located about 100 feet behind a safety fence. The fence is there to protect people from getting too close to the antenna. It is also an area where they buried the ground plane to increase antenna's efficiency so obviously they don't want anyone driving on top of it.

Very cool! I'll have a look again when in the area. Upon a google search of this info it appears to be a proprietary system made by a company called Valcom for AM antennas.   Do you work for them? 

Last edited by markow202 (June 25, 2018 2:16 pm)

 

June 25, 2018 3:38 pm  #33


Re: CKNT is on the air!

markow202 wrote:

navaidstech wrote:

markow202 wrote:


Oh ok.  Being AM I wonder if its a new single tower or something else.  I remember the airport 1280AM CFYZ back in the day used a "umbrella" type antenna atop a maintenance building of theirs.  
 

It's a fibreglass whip with a Valcosphere on top. It is located in a trucking yard, on the east side of the Husky gas station (Courtney/Kennedy). You really can't miss it as you're driving on Courtneypark.
In the picture above, you have to go past the gate on the right (good luck, it is motorized with security staff on site), then make a left and go all the way to the end. The transmitter shack and the antenna are located about 100 feet behind a safety fence. The fence is there to protect people from getting too close to the antenna. It is also an area where they buried the ground plane to increase antenna's efficiency so obviously they don't want anyone driving on top of it.

Very cool! I'll have a look again when in the area. Upon a google search of this info it appears to be a proprietary system made by a company called Valcom for AM antennas.   Do you work for them? 

You are correct! The antenna is made by Valcom out of Guelph and the transmitter is made by Nautel which is a very well known maker of LF and BCB transmitters. They're located in Nova Scotia and Maine.
I don't work for either of the two companies but know their products very well since they have been extensively used in my line of work (ground based air navigation beacons, amongst many others).
 

 

June 25, 2018 3:39 pm  #34


Re: CKNT is on the air!

markow202 wrote:

How are these "night" power outputs setup anyways in summer/winter and in general?  Time setup on transmitter for it to reduce?  i.e 8pm daily 

Yup... the transmitter has a built in scheduler which then controls the switching between two powers at a preset time of the morning or evening.

 

June 25, 2018 4:08 pm  #35


Re: CKNT is on the air!

http://i64.tinypic.com/21b5ds6.jpg


Here is the CKNT antenna as seen from Courtneypark. Took this pic on the way from work this afternoon.

 

June 25, 2018 4:33 pm  #36


Re: CKNT is on the air!

navaidstech wrote:

http://i64.tinypic.com/21b5ds6.jpg


Here is the CKNT antenna as seen from Courtneypark. Took this pic on the way from work this afternoon.

Cool looks like a flagpole! 

 

June 25, 2018 4:40 pm  #37


Re: CKNT is on the air!

markow202 wrote:

navaidstech wrote:

Here is the CKNT antenna as seen from Courtneypark. Took this pic on the way from work this afternoon.

Cool looks like a flagpole! 

Pretty inconspicuous, eh?

 

June 25, 2018 4:45 pm  #38


Re: CKNT is on the air!

navaidstech wrote:

markow202 wrote:

navaidstech wrote:

Here is the CKNT antenna as seen from Courtneypark. Took this pic on the way from work this afternoon.

Cool looks like a flagpole! 

Pretty inconspicuous, eh?

You'd never know.  Thats pretty neat.  

 

June 25, 2018 6:31 pm  #39


Re: CKNT is on the air!

navaidstech wrote:

Here is the CKNT antenna as seen from Courtneypark. Took this pic on the way from work this afternoon.

How expensive would that antenna and mast be to install and operate over the year?  It must be able to effectively cover a small town, no?  If you had one in say Newmarket, then I'm sure Bradford, Oak Ridges and Aurora would be reachable, no?
 

Last edited by Jody Thornton (June 25, 2018 6:32 pm)


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
 
 

June 25, 2018 9:18 pm  #40


Re: CKNT is on the air!

Jody Thornton wrote:

navaidstech wrote:

Here is the CKNT antenna as seen from Courtneypark. Took this pic on the way from work this afternoon.

How expensive would that antenna and mast be to install and operate over the year?  It must be able to effectively cover a small town, no?  If you had one in say Newmarket, then I'm sure Bradford, Oak Ridges and Aurora would be reachable, no?
 

I'm just guessing here but the upfront cost of setting up the station could be somewhere in the area of 30-40ish grand. You're looking at the purchase price of the shack, antenna, antenna counterpoise kit, antenna tuning unit, concrete base for the antenna, land to lay down the counterpoise (could lease it), fence around the site, labour to get it all set up (manpower, crane, etc). Of course you'll also need a transmitter (which can be pretty pricey) and ancillary equipment with internet hookups. On top of it annual licencing costs, hydro, land lease, insurance, etc...
The area you're trying to cover is pretty small so you can get away with low powered transmitter but would have to invest more into making the antenna more efficient....or vice versa - make the antenna less efficient but pump more power into it. There is always a tradeoff.
You'd probably be better off with FM as it doesn't require a lot of land to erect an antenna.

Last edited by navaidstech (June 25, 2018 9:30 pm)

 

June 25, 2018 9:28 pm  #41


Re: CKNT is on the air!

Chuck99 wrote:

You can see why that site was used for the tower and transmitter installation.  It appears to be a Hydro One corridor, so enough land was available.

This would have been a perfect location for it. We used to have a Non Directional Beacon where that square property is. It has been decommissioned probably around 15 years ago and the property has been sitting vacant ever since. Fully serviced (hydro) and I'm willing to bet the old antenna counterpoise is still buried in the ground.

http://i64.tinypic.com/vgokep.jpg

Last edited by navaidstech (June 25, 2018 9:29 pm)

 

June 25, 2018 11:55 pm  #42


Re: CKNT is on the air!

The antenna commonly is known as the "Rubber Duck."  CKNW in Vancouver has one on top of the TD Centre downtown.  News 1130 has one on top of their building on Ash Street south of False Creek.  These are "third" backup transmitters, I think about 3k power output with dedicated generators and cover loosely most of the downtown area.   All of the majors here have main and backup transmitters at their primary sites along with backup power to run those transmitters at full rated power but if you lose an antenna or tuning system on AM, you need an alternate and that's what these rooftop installations are for.
 

 

July 1, 2018 8:37 pm  #43


Re: CKNT is on the air!

For a station that spent seven years before finally just making it to air with a signal, this doesn't comes as a surprise. Despite the fact that a rep told me their target date to start regular programming was July 1st, I've been tuning 960 in and out all day and they're still in testing mode. 

It never really made much sense for a news/talk outfit to begin on a Sunday, let alone Canada Day, when there's not a lot to talk about and few would be listening anyway. (Although if they wanted to be clever, they could have done "Birth of a nation, birth of a station." But they didn't.)

I have no idea when they're actually going to end their tests and start with whatever passes for regular programming. But after admitting to me they haven't even hired many staff members as of two weeks ago, it's not a surprise that the longest-to-get-to-air station in history didn't start when it planned to.

As to when the magic date actually is, I have to wonder if even they know.   

 

July 2, 2018 9:43 am  #44


Re: CKNT is on the air!

RadioActive wrote:

As to when the magic date actually is, I have to wonder if even they know.   

They really missed the boat. They could have broadcast live on location at one of the Canada day big events where large crowds of people were guaranteed to be. It costs money to be at these events, but so does advertising the station and getting the word out.
 

 

July 2, 2018 1:30 pm  #45


Re: CKNT is on the air!

All they said is that they would "on the air" by July 1.  Not necessarily live.    Hell, they could be "testing" for years.

For what it's worth, I was driving home from Guelph at about 3 a.m. Sunday Morning and thought I'd check the signal out along the 401.  Could pick it up fine in Milton when the thought crossed my mind.  What really surprised me is what they were playing...

YouTube videos!  Brightside YouTube logic puzzle videos complete with the "click here to subscribe" at the end.   There was a blurb talking about CKNT testing between each one.  Now, they are in a testing phase and it would make sense to broadcast some spoken word content if they are primarily going to air spoken word content, but it just seemed odd.

And, I'm sorry.  Without their own domain or website and using a gmail address, it's hard to  think of this as a professional enterprise.
 

 

July 2, 2018 9:35 pm  #46


Re: CKNT is on the air!

Peter the K wrote:

And, I'm sorry.  Without their own domain or website and using a gmail address, it's hard to  think of this as a professional enterprise in 2018 
 

FIXED!! 30 or 40 years ago there was no such thing. 
I get why someone might think "We don't want people too far from our station coverage area listening because those people don't shop in our neck of the woods" but that is a foul way of thinking in 2018...what about the banner advertising, etc? What about the national advertisers?
If this station intends to be literally local, ads and all, then god help them...

 

July 3, 2018 2:52 pm  #47


Re: CKNT is on the air!

First, I'll presume they need a certain amount of time to test the signal before they can honour their programming commitments. Say by Labour Day or early fall. That's entirely reasonable IMO.

But, just for the sake of asking the question - if the aforementioned testing should go on and on, say beyond mid-fall, would the CRTC haul them on the carpet for non-compliance? If so, at what point might the CRTC begin to get antsy?
 

 

July 3, 2018 4:07 pm  #48


Re: CKNT is on the air!

When I Google "cknt website", the first listing that pops up is "Welcome to LCBO". 
I like it! My kinda radio station! 

 

July 3, 2018 4:41 pm  #49


Re: CKNT is on the air!

Saul wrote:

...if the aforementioned testing should go on and on

Well this sort of thing has been happening in Montreal with TTP on 600 & 940. They say they are lauching soon but.....
 

     Thread Starter
 

July 3, 2018 9:26 pm  #50


Re: CKNT is on the air!

Right. Forgot about them.
Will the CRTC appreciate such tactics?

 

July 4, 2018 12:13 pm  #51


Re: CKNT is on the air!

Last night around 11pm in-car could barely receive their signal when I tried in Etobicoke (Eglinton/427 area) - other signals were mashing in - it was also a very good DX signal kind of night as my OTA tv was picking up CTV London and City-31 Woodstock medium signal quality in Etobicoke.

 

July 4, 2018 9:10 pm  #52


Re: CKNT is on the air!

Well....just found on-air testing expires on July 9th. 
After that date, we will be doing some testing with the station engineers to make sure it doesn't impact any of our stuff at the airport (kinda moot now). Expect tones, tunes and what not... will keep you posted.
 

Last edited by navaidstech (July 4, 2018 9:20 pm)

 

July 5, 2018 11:19 am  #53


Re: CKNT is on the air!

navaidstech wrote:

Well....just found on-air testing expires on July 9th. 
After that date, we will be doing some testing with the station engineers to make sure it doesn't impact any of our stuff at the airport (kinda moot now). Expect tones, tunes and what not... will keep you posted.
 

Well the last thing we would want to hear is some airplane issues or furthur delays in flights due to this lovely station lol

 

July 7, 2018 7:48 am  #54


Re: CKNT is on the air!

Agreed. 

BTW, I went east of Toronto for some work related stuff yesterday. Had a very good copy of CKNT at Oshawa Airport when they were putting out daytime power. I tuned in again at Peterborough Airport at 9 PM (night power) and the station was completely obliterated by WFIR out of Roanokie, VA. There was another sports station as well but didn't get an ID...possibly out of New York. I listened while driving back to Pearson and  it wasn't until close to the 407/404 interchange when I could actually hear CKNT.

 

July 7, 2018 3:54 pm  #55


Re: CKNT is on the air!

navaidstech wrote:

it wasn't until close to the 407/404 interchange when I could actually hear CKNT.

Is there an area where the station SHOULD be reaching, but does not? 

 

Last edited by Radiowiz (July 7, 2018 3:54 pm)

 

July 8, 2018 9:00 pm  #56


Re: CKNT is on the air!

Out here on the other side of the lake, I was out for a drive along the Lake Ontario shoreline west of Rochester over the weekend and punched up 960 to see if I could hear it. The answer was not only "yes," but "surprisingly well, actually." Signal started to be audible out around Hamlin Beach State Park, once I was clear of the adjacent-channel hash from WROC 950 (the old WBBF) in Rochester itself, and it remained good out to the end of the Lake Ontario State Parkway midway across Orleans County. If I'd kept heading west, I expect CKNT would have started to disappear under the HD sidebands from Buffalo's WDCZ 970 once I entered that station's narrow directional beam.

Last edited by fybush (July 8, 2018 9:01 pm)

 

July 9, 2018 11:27 am  #57


Re: CKNT is on the air!

fybush wrote:

Out here on the other side of the lake, I was out for a drive along the Lake Ontario shoreline west of Rochester over the weekend and punched up 960 to see if I could hear it. The answer was not only "yes," but "surprisingly well, actually." Signal started to be audible out around Hamlin Beach State Park, once I was clear of the adjacent-channel hash from WROC 950 (the old WBBF) in Rochester itself, and it remained good out to the end of the Lake Ontario State Parkway midway across Orleans County. If I'd kept heading west, I expect CKNT would have started to disappear under the HD sidebands from Buffalo's WDCZ 970 once I entered that station's narrow directional beam.

What time was that at?

 

July 9, 2018 11:43 am  #58


Re: CKNT is on the air!

If this station is actually ever going to be up and running as should, the night time signal needs to be boosted a bit more.  This is when reception really falls off and isnt too strong.   

Its still so funny how turn signals, and stepping on your brake pedal in the car you can hear in the signal of AM.  Nevermind an approaching thunderstorm 

 

July 9, 2018 12:08 pm  #59


Re: CKNT is on the air!

Blame, or attribute, the noise you hear to likely be PWM circuitry driving your car's LEDs.

A decent explanation can be read here  https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/164078/why-is-pwm-used-to-control-leds-even-when-theyre-only-used-on-or-off  

All of this high rate  "switching" I have to believe causes harmonics reaching up into the AM band.

 

 

July 9, 2018 6:55 pm  #60


Re: CKNT is on the air!

Chuck99 wrote:

As long as people continue to listen to terrestrial radio in their cars, weak nighttime power will remain an issue.  It forces people to switch stations after driving for 15 or 20 kilometres.  In the winter, it can hinder the ability to hear morning drive shows before sunrise

What size on-air staff, including drive-time personalities, board operator, traffic & weather specialists & business news commentary plus of course the local news team will CKNT have at start-up?