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Tue Jul 24 3:40 pm  #2


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

Technology marches on.

If it weren't for the fact that I'm basically lazy I would have ditched my satellite feed ages ago.  Because of some trees that have become overgown close to power lines I had to move my main dish.  What a pain. 

Wish TekSavvy would offer IPTV so I could ditch the dish. (and Bell)  Just a few years ago I was saying it wasn't ready for prime time but that was then.  IPTV is here and the technology is quite decent.

As for OTA, there are still hassles involved with hardware, antennae, etc.  Maybe I'm just getting old and I want it all and don't want to fiddle with old-school tech to get it.

Edit:  In a senior moment, I originally wrote voip instll of iptv.  Oops!

Last edited by Peter the K (Tue Jul 24 9:38 pm)

 

Tue Jul 24 7:38 pm  #3


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

I believe eventually we will all be streaming live TV through the internet.  Your selections will be added to your internet bill.  The pace of change is only being slowed by the ridiculous prices of some of the TV offerings on the internet, particularly the Sportsnet channels.

 

Tue Jul 24 8:40 pm  #4


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

Some organizations are embracing it more than others.  TSN does have their TSN GO app but you can only watch the content on your device.  Meanwhile, the SportsNet app (like all the CBC apps) lets you use Chromecast to watch the content on your TV.  Came in awfully handy when the satellite signal went out this evening during the Jays game.  Worked like a charm and looks great.  But if cut the chord completely, I wouldn't be able to use the app at all.

I think it's just a matter of figuring out how to monetize it.  The TSN and Sportsnet apps just show the on-air feed complete with commercials.  The CBC live feeds blank out the commercials.  Why?

This use of the Internet as "common carrier" is all the more reason to embrace net neutrality.  

Last edited by Peter the K (Tue Jul 24 8:43 pm)

 

Wed Jul 25 5:52 am  #5


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

Some channels DO NOT STREAM. 
Where's GSN? (Game show network, to name one channel)
I have one of those fancy tiny boxes that you hook up to the TV.
It streams channels...tons of channels for free, so I think maybe I don't need cable...but then I realize the channels I'd actually miss because they're not streaming. They are literally cable only channels.
 

 

Wed Jul 25 8:19 am  #6


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

Radiowiz wrote:

Some channels DO NOT STREAM. 
Where's GSN? (Game show network, to name one channel)
I have one of those fancy tiny boxes that you hook up to the TV.
It streams channels...tons of channels for free, so I think maybe I don't need cable...but then I realize the channels I'd actually miss because they're not streaming. They are literally cable only channels.
 

What's sad is a lot of those "free channels" are actually not legally streamed free to your box if it's the type I think it is.   MOST android boxes on the market, access illegal streams of channels, movies etc.   Even if you are paying a service fee, there is only a few actually licensed, which means that service fee is supporting illegal activity, and do nothing to support what few shows, programs etc that are actually good.    You have to do your home work.   Some say they don't care, but reality is networks and programs can't be made for free..    To be clear, the android box isn't illegal, but most of the content people access on them is. 

 

Wed Jul 25 10:50 am  #7


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

radiokid wrote:

a lot of those "free channels" are actually not legally streamed free to your box
MOST android boxes on the market, access illegal streams of channels, movies etc.   
which means that service fee is supporting illegal activity, and do nothing to support what few shows, programs etc that are actually good.

Isn't it fascinating that many on this board will scream high murder if a radio employee isn't treated right or paid adequately. Yet, many don't seem to have an issue with stealing content and robbing the actors, writers, etc. of their dues. Oh, they'll try to justify somehow and blame the big, bad cable companies. But theft is theft.

     Thread Starter
 

Wed Jul 25 11:40 am  #8


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

cGrant wrote:

Isn't it fascinating that many on this board will scream high murder if a radio employee isn't treated right or paid adequately. Yet, many don't seem to have an issue with stealing content and robbing the actors, writers, etc. of their dues. Oh, they'll try to justify somehow and blame the big, bad cable companies. But theft is theft.

Nothing is illegal about streaming something that is already there, streaming online.


 

 

Wed Jul 25 12:16 pm  #9


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

Radiowiz wrote:

Nothing is illegal about streaming something that is already there, streaming online.

I see. So, the source of the content doesn't matter?! Well, there's money already in a bank, so taking it isn't a problem, right? Merchandise is just all around a store anyway, might as well just take it and walk out the establishment without payment.

Sorry, but justifying theft is absurd.
 

     Thread Starter
 

Wed Jul 25 2:39 pm  #10


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

In my original post about convergence, I was referring to cord-cutters who wanted to subscribe legally to over the air and cable based stations.  Currently, I occasionally stream TSN or Sportsnet by logging in legally through my cable TV account.  If you cut the cord, Sportsnet Now will cost you $24.99 per month.  If you subscribe to that as well as other offerings, the price is so high, you may as well keep your cable package. Bell TV did offer a skinny basic package that was an exclusive internet stream, but you had to subscribe to a top of the line internet package to be eligible to subscribe. 

Until a company bundles these channels into a more affordable package, convergence of TV and internet will be delayed and illegal streaming will continue to grow.  I do not condone the practice, but in the case of TV, movies and music, illegal streaming and downloading is the by-product of the over-priced offerings of the music industry and the big tel-coms.  Netflix was the first company to offer an affordable way for consumers to stream offerings from the internet.

 

Wed Jul 25 3:29 pm  #11


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

cGrant wrote:

Radiowiz wrote:

Nothing is illegal about streaming something that is already there, streaming online.

I see. So, the source of the content doesn't matter?! Well, there's money already in a bank, so taking it isn't a problem, right? Merchandise is just all around a store anyway, might as well just take it and walk out the establishment without payment.

Sorry, but justifying theft is absurd.
 

No more absurd than equating content with the physical media the content is recorded on.

If I steal a DVD/Blu Ray, the seller is physically deprived of the opportunity to sell that media.  If I download or stream the same movie without paying for it.  Who loses?  Especially when the reality is that if I couldn't download said movie, I just wouldn't bother and move on.

Not trying to start a pissing contest about "stealing" but equating taking intellectual property with physically is ludicrous.  I won't argue that they're both "wrong" but the reality of the situation is different.

 

 

Wed Jul 25 3:57 pm  #12


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

Peter the K wrote:

No more absurd than equating content with the physical media the content is recorded on.

If I steal a DVD/Blu Ray, the seller is physically deprived of the opportunity to sell that media.  If I download or stream the same movie without paying for it.  Who loses?  Especially when the reality is that if I couldn't download said movie, I just wouldn't bother and move on.

Not trying to start a pissing contest about "stealing" but equating taking intellectual property with physically is ludicrous.  I won't argue that they're both "wrong" but the reality of the situation is different.

 

But when you stole the Blu-Ray/DVD disc, it wasn't the physical disc that's being stolen.  You were stealing the intangible copyrighted video and audio signal.  So it was always intellectual property.

When you buy an LP or compact disc, the physical disc might be yours, but ownership of the physical media means nothing (let's exclude collectors for a second) if there is no device to extract the signal.  What you're buying is the audio that is blasted out of your loudspeakers.  That's it!  So a "stream" is now equivalent to a disc play.  Otherwise, how else do you monetize it?

If a diner hosts a jukebox, and you find a way to rig it, so you don't have to pay to play a song, the restaurant owner loses, don't they?  So why would the revenue from a lost play over a stream be any different?
 


Cheers,
Jody Thornton
Q:  What did one 45 say to the other?
A:  Are you "single"?  http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.gif
 

Wed Jul 25 4:24 pm  #13


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

Peter the K wrote:

If I download or stream the same movie without paying for it.  Who loses?  
Not trying to start a pissing contest about "stealing"

If you download or stream a movie WITHOUT PAYING FOR IT. <--- right there. WITHOUT PAYING FOR IT. Who loses? Without deconstructing the who/what/where, the key of your phrase is WITHOUT PAYING FOR IT. That alone should be the crux of the point. It is theft. Period. Endstop. But, yes, someone is ultimately losing some financial residual compensation.
 

     Thread Starter
 

Wed Jul 25 6:16 pm  #14


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

Well I’ll give cGrant credit for one thing – the poster certainly knows how to attract attention. I don’t think I’ve ever received so much inboard mail about one post since I took over. All of it negative.
 
The comments and the elaboration about a “pissing contest” were wildly inappropriate and had absolutely nothing to do with the subject of this thread. If it was an attempt at humour, it didn’t succeed.
 
As a result, I have edited the response to leave the legitimate first half alone but taken the offending portion out. There has to be some kind of standard on this playpen, for even the most liberal thinkers among us.
 
And lest I hear cries of “censoring the Internet” and “harming free expression,” let me remind you of our former moderator’s rules, which I still adhere to. This is not a democracy and you don’t have to post here if you don’t like the parameters.
 
There’s a line. And it was definitely crossed here.
 
I trust there will not be a repeat in the future. 

 

Wed Jul 25 9:59 pm  #15


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

Hey, how about instead of bombarding the Mod, people don't hide and run to Daddy and post your opposition here or inbox me directly? Why are people scared to do that? We're all adults here. Interesting that the first response those people have is to tattle and demand censure rather than have a discussion. Go ahead. I have thick skin. What I don't have is respect for people that want to be Cindy Brady. Go ahead.

     Thread Starter
 

Wed Jul 25 10:36 pm  #16


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

DFFT

 

Thu Jul 26 9:18 am  #17


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

Oh me! Let me start!

cGrant your mysogynistic, puerile, nonsensical ravings with disgusting pornographic and scatological overtones seem to be deliberately meant to offend and distract the board from what we've all gathered here to discuss.

You've put down more posters than elevated. You're capable of restraint and even kindness, but choose to be combative and rude.

Your constant use of the term illuminati illustrates you're just an incarnation of someone who continues to try the patience of moderators who eventually tire of you.

And you are ridiculously unrepentant of the crap you put out, not caring a whit about the people who work in radio...who are passionate, who enjoy the past, who discuss the technology and current events with RESPECT for one another.

You ought the be ashamed of yourself, but doubt you are capable of feeling shame. Why not start your own board, and see how well your filthy nonsense fairs?

BTW people don't mind telling it like it is on this board. But most of us have collectively decided you're not worth the bother.

Have a nice day! 

 

Thu Jul 26 10:41 am  #18


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

There. Now don't you feel better?

     Thread Starter
 

Thu Jul 26 1:36 pm  #19


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

Jody Thornton wrote:

But when you stole the Blu-Ray/DVD disc, it wasn't the physical disc that's being stolen.  You were stealing the intangible copyrighted video and audio signal.  So it was always intellectual property. 

True, but that wasn't my point.  The argument here isn't whether or not it's "wrong", it's the perception of the offence from the consumer's (and, to some extent, my) point of view.

Lets suppose you have a store that sells movies and you have 10 copies of "Movie X" on Blu-Ray.

If I walk into your store and walk out with one of your 10 Blu-Rays without paying for it, you are certainly losing on the income for that copy.

If I walk into your store with my laptop, take a BR off the shelf, copy it and put it back, you still have 10 copies in your inventory.  You have lost nothing.  You can still sell those 10 BRs and make your money.

Now to really muddy the waters, what if I walk into your store, buy a Blu-Ray, then make a copy of it and give either the original or the copy to a friend?  Technically, I should have bought two copies of the BR but as it stands you haven't lost any income especially since over the next few days, the other 9 copies are purchased.  Using the rationale that the person taking the copy would have bought it otherwise doesn't necessarily wash.  I can't make a copy of a Lamborghini.  That doesn't mean I'm going to buy one.  Unless Lotto Max smiles on me on Friday, I'm just going to have to do without.

The point (at the risk of triggering another scatological outburst) is that when dealing with intellectual property,  it's difficult to use the black and white "theft" argument and make it stick.

Last edited by Peter the K (Thu Jul 26 1:38 pm)

 

Thu Jul 26 1:50 pm  #20


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

Peter the K wrote:

If I walk into your store with my laptop, take a BR off the shelf, copy it and put it back, you still have 10 copies in your inventory.  You have lost nothing.  You can still sell those 10 BRs and make your money.​

Would YOU buy an opened DVD package of that movie? Be honest. Most would not. I have worked retail in the past and we were ordered by the DVD distributor sub-company (on behalf of the movie companies themselves) to remove that copy from sale. So, YES, the vendor IS out by one unit to sell.

Why are some here trying so hard to justify theft? Seriously. Why?
 

     Thread Starter
 

Thu Jul 26 1:53 pm  #21


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

wasn't there a tariff on blank tapes and cds at one time?  Theoretically then, i suppose an isp could slap an additional copy tax on their already huge rates, and it would act in the same manner to compensate content creators, just as the blank media tax from days gone by?

 

Thu Jul 26 1:58 pm  #22


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

Doesn't wash.

There was a time where you could listen to the record or even CD before you bought it.  Of course I'll buy the shrink-wrapped item if given a choice, but as long as the packaging is complete and I can still return a defective product, I see no problem.
 

 

Thu Jul 26 2:05 pm  #23


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

Peter the K wrote:

There was a time where you could listen to the record or even CD before you bought it.  Of course I'll buy the shrink-wrapped item if given a choice, but as long as the packaging is complete and I can still return a defective product, I see no problem.

Sir, I am going to assume you never worked retail. Any "samplers" were taken into account by the distributor and live inventory counts were adjusted accordingly. When we played the current week's DVD on the bank of television sets, that DVD was NOT to be sold and sent to claims.

I cannot speak on behalf of other retailers, but the chain I was at would NOT allow the sale of opened CDs or DVDs. It was a security issue. Cashiers would ring back to Electronics and have the Associate fetch an unopened copy.

Sorry, it washes. I have a decade of experience to this end. 

     Thread Starter
 

Thu Jul 26 4:58 pm  #24


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

The two major record store chains I worked at while in university, would crack open a brand new CD or album and play it for the customer if there wasn't a store copy. If the customer decided not to purchase it, it was resealed and sold. We even had a special machine with a super heated arm to reseal the product, and we also would seal the plastic shopping bags with the store logo on them at point of purchase so another album or CD didn't get slipped in on the way out accidentally on purpose.

As a customer I used to check out the HMV at Yonge and Dundas, and if there wasn't a listening copy, you could go to the top floor with something you wanted to check out, and they'd open it and pop it in the CD player and hand you the headphones. Stabbing Westward, Delirium, Econoline Crush..NIN.. those were the days.

I can't remember what Sam's policy was about checking out music before buying was, maybe someone else will know.

And in the second hand shops it varies.

 

Thu Jul 26 5:50 pm  #25


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

Lentil wrote:

Oh me! Let me start!

cGrant your mysogynistic, puerile, nonsensical ravings with disgusting pornographic and scatological overtones seem to be deliberately meant to offend and distract the board from what we've all gathered here to discuss.

You've put down more posters than elevated. You're capable of restraint and even kindness, but choose to be combative and rude.

Your constant use of the term illuminati illustrates you're just an incarnation of someone who continues to try the patience of moderators who eventually tire of you.

And you are ridiculously unrepentant of the crap you put out, not caring a whit about the people who work in radio...who are passionate, who enjoy the past, who discuss the technology and current events with RESPECT for one another.

You ought the be ashamed of yourself, but doubt you are capable of feeling shame. Why not start your own board, and see how well your filthy nonsense fairs?

BTW people don't mind telling it like it is on this board. But most of us have collectively decided you're not worth the bother.

Have a nice day!

https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/many-thumbs-up-against-white-background-picture-id500039057?k=6&amp;m=500039057&amp;s=612x612&amp;w=0&amp;h=zA0AryNfxeV803egT25wSDbZovEn3lrIIDDanw-SaBU=

 

Thu Jul 26 7:52 pm  #26


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

You know folks, if you simply ignore offensive people in internet forums and do not respond in any fashion, they do eventually get tired of talking to themselves and move onto other pastures where they can feel important again .

 

Sun Jul 29 3:16 am  #27


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

 

Sun Jul 29 8:26 am  #28


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

 
I clicked on the link, and this is the first time I've heard anything about this new launch. Have there been ads on television and radio Radiowiz? I listen to a fair amount of radio and I don't remember hearing any ads at all heralding this "the whole ball of wax" launch.

The name Ignite Tv has a bit of an SCTV vibe. ;)

 

Sun Jul 29 1:08 pm  #29


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

I've seen nothing in broadcast or print media about this however Rogers highlight it,  in their latest "Connect" email that they send to  customers.

 

Sun Jul 29 1:48 pm  #30


Re: It's A Bad Time To Be A Cable Company

Ignite TV is being rolled out to customers that have shown a willingness to be early adopters.  I got a mailing.  Downsides, from what I can gather:

- No bundle discount.
- All or nothing proposition (in that you must change all of your boxes in order to go Ignite TV).
- Installation by technician required.

Meh.   In that case, why not move to Bell?  Rogers is no far behind them i would be trying to get the boxes into customers hand ASAP.

Last edited by Leslieville Bill (Sun Jul 29 1:52 pm)


- Not an industry person.  Just a guy with a love of Toronto radio. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/cute.gif