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April 8, 2019 6:33 pm  #2


Re: Facebook Bans Faith Goldy

Does Canada have freedom of expression, or not, and who decides what is right, and what is wrong?  I don't agree with most of what the alt-right espouses, but I don't agree with most of what the ultra-left espouses, either.  I want to hear all opinions, philosophies, prejudices and acceptances, and make up my own mind.  Shouldn't we all be able to decide for ourselves what we believe?  Isn't that what 'freedom' is all about?
 

 

April 8, 2019 6:59 pm  #3


Re: Facebook Bans Faith Goldy

sure freedom of speech is our right... however, in this case, these comments are being made on third party owned platforms (unlike hitting the streets with a megaphone or firing up the printing press). come to think of it, almost all (perhaps there are exceptions) internet posts, websites, threads, podcasts, etc, are hosted by third parties (with "agreed to" user agreements).

 

April 8, 2019 8:13 pm  #4


Re: Facebook Bans Faith Goldy

Charlie wrote:

Does Canada have freedom of expression, or not, and who decides what is right, and what is wrong? 

Facebook is a private company. The Charter of Rights applies to governments, not companies. 

Last edited by Hansa (April 8, 2019 8:15 pm)

 

April 8, 2019 9:27 pm  #5


Re: Facebook Bans Faith Goldy

Hansa wrote:

Charlie wrote:

Does Canada have freedom of expression, or not, and who decides what is right, and what is wrong? 

Facebook is a private company. The Charter of Rights applies to governments, not companies. 

Pretty much. Some minor nuance. This site explains it pretty succinctly: www.aclrc.com/who-does-the-charter-apply-to

 

April 9, 2019 11:06 am  #6


Re: Facebook Bans Faith Goldy

This is yet another alarming episode in an extremely distressing trend.

It is precisely the bad ideas which need to be exposed to sunlight and scrutiny. To drive them underground in service of meaningless virtue-signalling does nothing to suppress them and only washes the hands of those who should be fighting fire with fire and rebutting such ideas in the light of day.

 

April 9, 2019 11:32 am  #7


Re: Facebook Bans Faith Goldy

milton wrote:

This is yet another alarming episode in an extremely distressing trend.

It is precisely the bad ideas which need to be exposed to sunlight and scrutiny. To drive them underground in service of meaningless virtue-signalling does nothing to suppress them and only washes the hands of those who should be fighting fire with fire and rebutting such ideas in the light of day.

My thoughts exactly.

I always refer to the excellent example of Andy Barrie when he was on CFRB.  There were several occasions when he had Ernst Zundel on the air with him.  He didn't engage Zundel in debate.  There would be no point.  Barrie just got him started with some leading (I guess you could say bait) questions and would then basically shut up while Zundel dug his own hole, often spiraling into a tirade that did the trick quite nicely.  Listening to Zundel froth at the mouth is all it took to convince the listener this guy was off his rocker.

So let them talk.  Let them (whoever they are) show themselves for what they are.
 

 

April 9, 2019 11:36 am  #8


Re: Facebook Bans Faith Goldy

milton wrote:

It is precisely the bad ideas which need to be exposed to sunlight and scrutiny.

Her (and her pals') 'ideas' have been well scrutinised 75 years ago. The findings were definitive and made at the cost of many millions of lives. You may have known a participant or two. Spare me the high-minded horsepuckey.

 

April 9, 2019 1:51 pm  #9


Re: Facebook Bans Faith Goldy

Chrisphen wrote:

milton wrote:

It is precisely the bad ideas which need to be exposed to sunlight and scrutiny.

Her (and her pals') 'ideas' have been well scrutinised 75 years ago. The findings were definitive and made at the cost of many millions of lives. You may have known a participant or two. Spare me the high-minded horsepuckey.

Exactly. And they did not go away. And nor will they ever. Outlawing them not only make thought a crime but it creates a false sense of security for those who would rightly be disturbed by them.

 

April 9, 2019 4:25 pm  #10


Re: Facebook Bans Faith Goldy

Not thought, until government and/or big business come out with mindreading tools. Which may not be far-fetched. But expression of certain things, yes.

I've mixed feelings for some of the reasons expressed in various posts above. I'm well aware you can jail and / or silence the Nazi but you can't jail or silence the ideology. But I think it's a matter of degrees and situations, and while the expression of views is one thing, views sometimes go totally off the rails. I'm not hugely inclined to tolerate incitement to hatred and violence. But I am at the same time wary about where lines are drawn, and the role and privilege of power in all of this.

Maybe the answer lies in preserving and financing proper education and healthcare systems. We know poverty and other such forms of inequality breeds political despair which breeds hate. (I'm not saying these are the only cause; far from it; but they play a significant role). Part of the answer is in other areas of law, including libel and slander - I don't have the right to publicly accuse any of you of certain things without evidence because your right to your reputation balances with my free speech.

I'd be a lot happier with mass media if there was less emphasis on an outlet or show being ideologically driven and more towards debate, discussion and probing of ideas. I don't see much curiosity happening in commercial radio. US talk radio is a clear propaganda machine. You see some of that here, but much, much milder. I've also never cared for newspaper editorial sections (sometimes but not always bleeding into actual news coverage) from pretty well day 1 having the party / ideology they support. Boringly predictable...
 

 

April 9, 2019 5:09 pm  #11


Re: Facebook Bans Faith Goldy

Good arguments are contained above. I won't lower the debate by adding my opinion.

I'll simply ask, how is it that a young, reasonably attractive person, born and educated in the greatest country in the World, adopts such tribal nonsense?

Who, or what, got to her brain?
 


 
 

April 9, 2019 7:04 pm  #12


Re: Facebook Bans Faith Goldy

I too wasn't going to get involved.  but given Dial Twister's question and the response from Chuck99, I will say this.

Just today, on the "What's New" section of Snopes, they felt the need to debunk the following:

Is Brad Pitt Playing Bob Marley in an upcoming biopic?
Was Malia Obama indicted for food stamp fraud?
Did AOC propose a nationwide motorcycle ban?

If the venerable Snopes perceived a need to address such silliness, i might suggest that certain people are susceptible to believing anything at any time, as long as the premise aligns with their own world view.
 

 

April 10, 2019 9:08 am  #13


Re: Facebook Bans Faith Goldy

splunge wrote:

Just today, on the "What's New" section of Snopes, they felt the need to debunk the following:
 

I'm fully expecting Snopes.com to be labelled "FAKE NEWS" any day now. http://i43.tinypic.com/2wfu2o2.jpg


I dread what tactics are coming in future elections across all Western democracies...at least in the democracies that are still standing.
 


 
 

April 10, 2019 8:13 pm  #14


Re: Facebook Bans Faith Goldy

Peter the K wrote:

milton wrote:

This is yet another alarming episode in an extremely distressing trend.

It is precisely the bad ideas which need to be exposed to sunlight and scrutiny. To drive them underground in service of meaningless virtue-signalling does nothing to suppress them and only washes the hands of those who should be fighting fire with fire and rebutting such ideas in the light of day.

My thoughts exactly.

I always refer to the excellent example of Andy Barrie when he was on CFRB.  There were several occasions when he had Ernst Zundel on the air with him.  He didn't engage Zundel in debate.  There would be no point.  Barrie just got him started with some leading (I guess you could say bait) questions and would then basically shut up while Zundel dug his own hole, often spiraling into a tirade that did the trick quite nicely.  Listening to Zundel froth at the mouth is all it took to convince the listener this guy was off his rocker.

So let them talk.  Let them (whoever they are) show themselves for what they are.
 

The problem with this hypothesis is that it assumes that people are rational and, when confronted by information that challenges their preconceived biases, they will change their minds. Experience tells us this is not the case.

As we've seen with incidents ranging from the Quebec City mosque shooting to the Yellow Vest protesters in Europe, gullible people can be influenced by hyper-nationalist rhetoric to commit acts of violence and hate. I'll support any effort that shuts down the megaphone that preaches this nonsense.

 

April 11, 2019 10:38 am  #15


Re: Facebook Bans Faith Goldy

LocalNewsGuy wrote:

As we've seen with incidents ranging from the Quebec City mosque shooting to the Yellow Vest protesters in Europe, gullible people can be influenced by hyper-nationalist rhetoric to commit acts of violence and hate. I'll support any effort that shuts down the megaphone that preaches this nonsense.

This is exactly my point - this effort is precisely a bad strategy if the purpose is to defeat the idea. 

Which is why I suggest taking this action is motivated unfortunately not chiefly by interest in opposing the idea, as much as it is motivated by oneupmanship in a neverending game of virtue signalling.

I will leave it as an exercise to the reader remind themselves of the ghoulish outcome of several garish examples in recent and ancient history of societies people by large numbers of out-of-control virtue-signallers out to one up each other in demonstration of their adherence to proscribed ideology by inventing more and cleverer ways to show the gallery how good they are at silencing dissenters.
 

 

April 11, 2019 12:16 pm  #16


Re: Facebook Bans Faith Goldy

milton wrote:

LocalNewsGuy wrote:

As we've seen with incidents ranging from the Quebec City mosque shooting to the Yellow Vest protesters in Europe, gullible people can be influenced by hyper-nationalist rhetoric to commit acts of violence and hate. I'll support any effort that shuts down the megaphone that preaches this nonsense.

This is exactly my point - this effort is precisely a bad strategy if the purpose is to defeat the idea. 

Which is why I suggest taking this action is motivated unfortunately not chiefly by interest in opposing the idea, as much as it is motivated by oneupmanship in a neverending game of virtue signalling.

I will leave it as an exercise to the reader remind themselves of the ghoulish outcome of several garish examples in recent and ancient history of societies people by large numbers of out-of-control virtue-signallers out to one up each other in demonstration of their adherence to proscribed ideology by inventing more and cleverer ways to show the gallery how good they are at silencing dissenters.
 

So to be clear, you view the individual who shot up a mosque in Quebec City as a "dissenter" rather than a mass murderer? 

Frankly, I don't see blocking individuals or organizations that promote genocide and race hatred as "virtue-signalling" on the Internet. If you do, I'd suggest that's more a perception of your worldview, rather than any greater fault of society as a whole.