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September 10, 2020 4:36 pm  #1


Mighty Q Once More!

Q107 as predicted by Aaron a few weeks back, had a great summer in terms of ratings.  They are touting themselves as the number one station in Toronto.  While technically they do trail CBC Radio One overall, they are number one in the important 25-54 demo. Don't know if Q was number one or two in the mornings but they did have their best book in over 15 years.  Corus and Global were quick off the mark promoting the good news.
https://www.corusent.com/news/q107-sizzles-this-summer-with-1-ratings-in-toronto/

 

September 10, 2020 5:17 pm  #2


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

All the boomers were off work and had nothing else to do but sit around the garage, drink beer, and listen to CILQ 

 

September 10, 2020 5:24 pm  #3


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

...and on the AM side they have the number one...wait....what? Awww never mind! Nothing to read here! 
 

 

September 10, 2020 5:28 pm  #4


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

They were not #1 mornings. 

This book really represents who was "at work" over the summer. During the day, Q and Boom account for nearly a third of tuning 25-54

Will post numbers shortly.


 
 

September 10, 2020 5:30 pm  #5


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

grilled.cheese wrote:

All the boomers were off work and had nothing else to do but sit around the garage, drink beer, and listen to CILQ 

There are no boomers in 25-54.

Blue collar workers were at work, and the site had Q on all day, every day.


 
 

September 10, 2020 5:41 pm  #6


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

Here's your 25-54

Q107                               11.4
CBC Radio One                10.4
boom 97.3                       9.7
98.1 CHFI                         9.7
CHUM 104.5                    6.5
680 News                         5.6
KiSS 92.5                          5.3
102.1 The Edge               5.0
Z 1035                             4.7
999 Virgin Radio             4.6
INDIE 88.1                        4.1
News Talk 1010 - CFRB  2.9
CBC Music                        2.6
Classical 96.3 FM            1.5
Sportsnet 590 The FAN  1.4
Energy 95-3                     1.2
FLOW 93-5                       1.1
JAZZ.FM91                       1.0
Jewel 88 5                        1.0
GNR640                           0.9
ZoomerRadio AM740     0.8
ICI Musique                      0.8
TSN 1050                         0.6
G98.7                               0.4
106.5 Elmnt FM               0.0
 


 
 

September 10, 2020 6:09 pm  #7


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

There's Elmnt again with 0.0. How many books in a row is that? Wow. I know it's a specialty type station but really, how long can that continue? Is anyone going to address the Elmnt in the room?

 

September 10, 2020 6:13 pm  #8


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

From the total numbers it looks like CHUM FM has taken a bit of a fall, even 25-54 trailing CHFI badly.  Surprised that CIDC Z103 did so well.  They don't have the best signal in parts of the city and they bested FLOW with authority 25-54 and total coverage.  Not really too far off from 92.5 Kiss either.  

     Thread Starter
 

September 10, 2020 6:26 pm  #9


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

RadioActive wrote:

There's Elmnt again with 0.0. How many books in a row is that? Wow. I know it's a specialty type station but really, how long can that continue? Is anyone going to address the Elmnt in the room?

They re-formatted to more of a Hot AC a couple months back, and marketed as "Pop and Hip-Hop", but nobody noticed. It's not like there's a hole there. They might be better off going with something more niche, and blending the indigenous content into that. I know it's counter-intuitive for a downtown signal, but I'd be tempted to try Country
 


 
 

September 10, 2020 6:28 pm  #10


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

paterson1 wrote:

[ Surprised that CIDC Z103 did so well.   

I think there's a similar situation there to what helped Q. Z listeners aren't commuting to Bay Street, but rather to the plants and shops outside of the core.
 


 
 

September 10, 2020 6:32 pm  #11


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

paterson1 wrote:

From the total numbers it looks like CHUM FM has taken a bit of a fall, even 25-54 trailing CHFI badly.  Surprised that CIDC Z103 did so well.  They don't have the best signal in parts of the city and they bested FLOW with authority 25-54 and total coverage.  Not really too far off from 92.5 Kiss either.  

I bet "The Breakfast Club" (among their other schedule changes) sure didn't help CFXJ's ratings. 

As for CIDC, I think their success has to do with playing more variety than the pure CHR's in the market. Who wants to hear the same 10 songs every hour when you're working from home and can easily change the channel? 

 

September 10, 2020 6:40 pm  #12


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

torontostan wrote:

I bet "The Breakfast Club" (among their other schedule changes) sure didn't help CFXJ's ratings. 

They're a 0.3 in the morning, so yeah, sure didn't.


 
 

September 10, 2020 6:40 pm  #13


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

RadioActive wrote:

There's Elmnt again with 0.0. How many books in a row is that? Wow. I know it's a speciality type station but really, how long can that continue? Is anyone going to address the Elmnt in the room?

Any new station should think long and hard about going into "the book." It ain't 1957 and CHUM goes rock and roll 24/7 and has a new 50,000 watt transmitter and more than quadruples it's ratings overnight, leaving Toronto's other three or four stations scratching their heads wondering what happened...

The ratings are used by national advertising and agencies.  A new station is not going to have a lot of national ads.  You will likely get some national anyway as is happening with community station.  So being in the book creates a problem for you, and draws attention to the fact that you started with zero audience and haven't been making much progress.  Elmnt, which by the way isn't a bad sounding station, with some good talent, should focus local, local, local and treat any national advertising as gravy.  Being part of the ratings should not be a priority.  

     Thread Starter
 

September 10, 2020 7:11 pm  #14


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

paterson1 wrote:

RadioActive wrote:

There's Elmnt again with 0.0. How many books in a row is that? Wow. I know it's a speciality type station but really, how long can that continue? Is anyone going to address the Elmnt in the room?

Any new station should think long and hard about going into "the book." It ain't 1957 and CHUM goes rock and roll 24/7 and has a new 50,000 watt transmitter and more than quadruples it's ratings overnight, leaving Toronto's other three or four stations scratching their heads wondering what happened...

The ratings are used by national advertising and agencies.  A new station is not going to have a lot of national ads.  You will likely get some national anyway as is happening with community station.  So being in the book creates a problem for you, and draws attention to the fact that you started with zero audience and haven't been making much progress.  Elmnt, which by the way isn't a bad sounding station, with some good talent, should focus local, local, local and treat any national advertising as gravy.  Being part of the ratings should not be a priority.  

Paterson1, with all respect, my past experience in sales is that you often meet local prospects who "want to see the numbers".... ratings.  And i'm talking small/medium market, not toronna.  the only way to provide legit ratings is either through numeris, or your own (suspect) surveys.  ya there are techniques to overcome those objections, but sometimes you gotta pull out that old phrase.  "sure we're not #1, but we work harder because we're #2"

I hated sales, btw!
 

 

September 10, 2020 7:17 pm  #15


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

splunge wrote:

paterson1 wrote:

RadioActive wrote:

There's Elmnt again with 0.0. How many books in a row is that? Wow. I know it's a speciality type station but really, how long can that continue? Is anyone going to address the Elmnt in the room?

Any new station should think long and hard about going into "the book." It ain't 1957 and CHUM goes rock and roll 24/7 and has a new 50,000 watt transmitter and more than quadruples it's ratings overnight, leaving Toronto's other three or four stations scratching their heads wondering what happened...

The ratings are used by national advertising and agencies.  A new station is not going to have a lot of national ads.  You will likely get some national anyway as is happening with community station.  So being in the book creates a problem for you, and draws attention to the fact that you started with zero audience and haven't been making much progress.  Elmnt, which by the way isn't a bad sounding station, with some good talent, should focus local, local, local and treat any national advertising as gravy.  Being part of the ratings should not be a priority.  

Paterson1, with all respect, my past experience in sales is that you often meet local prospects who "want to see the numbers".... ratings.  And i'm talking small/medium market, not toronna.  the only way to provide legit ratings is either through numeris, or your own (suspect) surveys.  ya there are techniques to overcome those objections, but sometimes you gotta pull out that old phrase.  "sure we're not #1, but we work harder because we're #2"

I hated sales, btw!
 

You're not wrong, but in this case no ratings is better than a 0.0. They'd be better off leaning harder into their Indigenous identity and presenting listener and community testimonials to make their pitch. Make advertisers feel good about being associated with the station.
 


 
 

September 10, 2020 7:19 pm  #16


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

RadioAaron wrote:

RadioActive wrote:

There's Elmnt again with 0.0. How many books in a row is that? Wow. I know it's a specialty type station but really, how long can that continue? Is anyone going to address the Elmnt in the room?

They re-formatted to more of a Hot AC a couple months back, and marketed as "Pop and Hip-Hop", but nobody noticed. It's not like there's a hole there. They might be better off going with something more niche, and blending the indigenous content into that. I know it's counter-intuitive for a downtown signal, but I'd be tempted to try Country
 

Absolutely country would be something to look at.  Indigenous music, which certainly does get into country styles, and a modern country format, very interesting. Right now Elmnt sounds pretty good so they have the people and talent, just a matter of finding something that is missing in the region.   Canada's largest radio market with no local country station is a gap which should be filled.  Didn't KISS FM initially do reasonably well when they signed on with the modern country format many years ago?   And really how much better are they now with hot a/c?? 

     Thread Starter
 

September 10, 2020 7:30 pm  #17


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

paterson1 wrote:

  Didn't KISS FM initially do reasonably well when they signed on with the modern country format many years ago?   

CISS did amazingly well at first as a country station, but it was a different time -- when the format was peaking and a limited signal could do more for you. Not to mention that Rawlco marketing money.

I don't think there's a huge hole there, but it's enough to get them on the scoreboard. 
 


 
 

September 10, 2020 8:05 pm  #18


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

They didn't list Ryan Parker and John Garbutt on the press release. I'd be pissed.

 

September 10, 2020 8:09 pm  #19


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

RadioAaron wrote:

splunge wrote:

paterson1 wrote:

Any new station should think long and hard about going into "the book." It ain't 1957 and CHUM goes rock and roll 24/7 and has a new 50,000 watt transmitter and more than quadruples it's ratings overnight, leaving Toronto's other three or four stations scratching their heads wondering what happened...

The ratings are used by national advertising and agencies.  A new station is not going to have a lot of national ads.  You will likely get some national anyway as is happening with community station.  So being in the book creates a problem for you, and draws attention to the fact that you started with zero audience and haven't been making much progress.  Elmnt, which by the way isn't a bad sounding station, with some good talent, should focus local, local, local and treat any national advertising as gravy.  Being part of the ratings should not be a priority.  

Paterson1, with all respect, my past experience in sales is that you often meet local prospects who "want to see the numbers".... ratings.  And i'm talking small/medium market, not toronna.  the only way to provide legit ratings is either through numeris, or your own (suspect) surveys.  ya there are techniques to overcome those objections, but sometimes you gotta pull out that old phrase.  "sure we're not #1, but we work harder because we're #2"

I hated sales, btw!
 

You're not wrong, but in this case no ratings is better than a 0.0. They'd be better off leaning harder into their Indigenous identity and presenting listener and community testimonials to make their pitch. Make advertisers feel good about being associated with the station.
 

That is very true.  target prospects with that angle and there could be some success.  i haven't looked at the population breakdown, but how widespread is the market for that station?  might be worth a lowball rate card purchase.  Ethnic stations have been working it successfully for years....

 

September 10, 2020 8:12 pm  #20


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

splunge wrote:

paterson1 wrote:

RadioActive wrote:

There's Elmnt again with 0.0. How many books in a row is that? Wow. I know it's a speciality type station but really, how long can that continue? Is anyone going to address the Elmnt in the room?

Any new station should think long and hard about going into "the book." It ain't 1957 and CHUM goes rock and roll 24/7 and has a new 50,000 watt transmitter and more than quadruples it's ratings overnight, leaving Toronto's other three or four stations scratching their heads wondering what happened...

The ratings are used by national advertising and agencies.  A new station is not going to have a lot of national ads.  You will likely get some national anyway as is happening with community station.  So being in the book creates a problem for you, and draws attention to the fact that you started with zero audience and haven't been making much progress.  Elmnt, which by the way isn't a bad sounding station, with some good talent, should focus local, local, local and treat any national advertising as gravy.  Being part of the ratings should not be a priority.  

Paterson1, with all respect, my past experience in sales is that you often meet local prospects who "want to see the numbers".... ratings.  And i'm talking small/medium market, not toronna.  the only way to provide legit ratings is either through numeris, or your own (suspect) surveys.  ya there are techniques to overcome those objections, but sometimes you gotta pull out that old phrase.  "sure we're not #1, but we work harder because we're #2"

I hated sales, btw!
 

Well, I was in sales as well, and I loved it!  Enjoyed my years on air and less in management but sales was great.

I would only talk about ratings if the customer brought it up, which they almost never did.  If they are already listening to the station in the store, like the on air talent, like the music and news, and like you as a sales rep, why bring up ratings?  You are only setting yourself up and them for defeat and disappointment.  And I am talking local advertising here.
 
The only thing that matters is what kind of response did they get from the ads.  Even if the result was not what they were hoping for, if people commented on the ad or if sales were strong for unadvertised items, they tended to give the advertising credit.  For customers especially local advertisers, results are what matters.  As a sales representative it is important that you make sure their expectations are realistic.

So smaller to medium sized markets, ratings only become an issue if the sales rep or the rep from another station  tries to make it a big deal.  Other radio sales people always do this when they think they are going to lose a sale.

You might be working for the number 4 station in a 4 station market and sell an advertiser a remote broadcast.  The #1 station rep is pissed because they lost the sale, but in reality they are scared stiff that the remote will be successful.  Why?  Because all of a sudden their ratings and the hype about wasting your money with station #4 doesn't mean much.

This happened to me a few times in my sales career where the client liked the station, liked me and took a chance with the one that didn't have the ratings.  Both times sales had a nice increase over the previous year when using the station with the big ratings and even bigger rates.

Did they come back next year to our station?  Absolutely, and we had them for a few more additional live broadcasts  throughout the year.  And the best thing was, this gave me the best opportunity to sell more on location remotes since we now had a track record of success.  

So a station like Elmnt has only drawn attention as to how few listeners they have.   And how much national or even local advertising has the ratings generated?  

     Thread Starter
 

September 10, 2020 8:31 pm  #21


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

paterson1 wrote:

splunge wrote:

paterson1 wrote:

Any new station should think long and hard about going into "the book." It ain't 1957 and CHUM goes rock and roll 24/7 and has a new 50,000 watt transmitter and more than quadruples it's ratings overnight, leaving Toronto's other three or four stations scratching their heads wondering what happened...

The ratings are used by national advertising and agencies.  A new station is not going to have a lot of national ads.  You will likely get some national anyway as is happening with community station.  So being in the book creates a problem for you, and draws attention to the fact that you started with zero audience and haven't been making much progress.  Elmnt, which by the way isn't a bad sounding station, with some good talent, should focus local, local, local and treat any national advertising as gravy.  Being part of the ratings should not be a priority.  

Paterson1, with all respect, my past experience in sales is that you often meet local prospects who "want to see the numbers".... ratings.  And i'm talking small/medium market, not toronna.  the only way to provide legit ratings is either through numeris, or your own (suspect) surveys.  ya there are techniques to overcome those objections, but sometimes you gotta pull out that old phrase.  "sure we're not #1, but we work harder because we're #2"

I hated sales, btw!
 

Well, I was in sales as well, and I loved it!  Enjoyed my years on air and less in management but sales was great.

I would only talk about ratings if the customer brought it up, which they almost never did.  If they are already listening to the station in the store, like the on air talent, like the music and news, and like you as a sales rep, why bring up ratings?  You are only setting yourself up and them for defeat and disappointment.  And I am talking local advertising here.
 
The only thing that matters is what kind of response did they get from the ads.  Even if the result was not what they were hoping for, if people commented on the ad or if sales were strong for unadvertised items, they tended to give the advertising credit.  For customers especially local advertisers, results are what matters.  As a sales representative it is important that you make sure their expectations are realistic.

So smaller to medium sized markets, ratings only become an issue if the sales rep or the rep from another station  tries to make it a big deal.  Other radio sales people always do this when they think they are going to lose a sale.

You might be working for the number 4 station in a 4 station market and sell an advertiser a remote broadcast.  The #1 station rep is pissed because they lost the sale, but in reality they are scared stiff that the remote will be successful.  Why?  Because all of a sudden their ratings and the hype about wasting your money with station #4 doesn't mean much.

This happened to me a few times in my sales career where the client liked the station, liked me and took a chance with the one that didn't have the ratings.  Both times sales had a nice increase over the previous year when using the station with the big ratings and even bigger rates.

Did they come back next year to our station?  Absolutely, and we had them for a few more additional live broadcasts  throughout the year.  And the best thing was, this gave me the best opportunity to sell more on location remotes since we now had a track record of success.  

So a station like Elmnt has only drawn attention as to how few listeners they have.   And how much national or even local advertising has the ratings generated?  

I agree absolutely.  as RadioAaron also pointed out, you sell your strengths and work hard to overcome the objections based on numbers.  Ratings? pfft. we have an audience (but no proof!).  The idea of psychographics.... not population distribution or geographical location, matters.  Just because someone is 25-54 doesn't particularly mean that the major advertisers appeal to them... or the station itself.  it's about mindset.  and if you can capture that in your on-air product and reflect that in your advertising, all the better.  But.... it has to be a holistic approach to programming, production, sales, and driven by management.

Remember CHTZ St. Kitts back in the 90s?  still owned by Affinity before being bought out.  Hard rockers with a relatively low BBM, but advertised niche locations like Harley dealerships and "hydroponic" growers?  Also point out Rebel FM Ottawa, currently killing it as a stand alone in a heavily corporate market.  I think that speaks to your points Paterson and Aaron.  Thanks for the chat!

 

September 10, 2020 9:03 pm  #22


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

splunge wrote:

 Also point out Rebel FM Ottawa, currently killing it as a stand alone in a heavily corporate market.

I don't think they're "killing it" as much as they are simply doing better then they did as DAWG FM, otherwise, why did Corus throw away the Bear? 

 

 

September 11, 2020 9:19 am  #23


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

paterson1 wrote:

From the total numbers it looks like CHUM FM has taken a bit of a fall, even 25-54 trailing CHFI badly.  Surprised that CIDC Z103 did so well.  They don't have the best signal in parts of the city and they bested FLOW with authority 25-54 and total coverage.  Not really too far off from 92.5 Kiss either.  

CIDC 103.5 I know they now have an HD part to their signal but, their signal I noticed has gotten much better.  Dont know if they have a better antenna now in the same spot but its overall better I noticed, including when being in the north and not just the city.

 

September 11, 2020 9:39 am  #24


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

This book is very odd to me... based on some demos getting huge numbers on stations that just don't make sense.  (18-34 Q107 is #1 for example)  As for CHUM... They score better in their key demo... FEMALE 25-54 where they have a 8.3.   

Q107 may benefit from pandemic listening. It will be interesting to see if they keep the audience as the world goes back to normal.    The sign as well is when you look at cume.   Q107 has the longest listening but not largest audience.   They win in share by keeping listeners the longest, hands down.   

In PPM markets, typically they sell based on KEY demos a client wants, not because station has the highest overall share point.
 

 

September 11, 2020 10:17 am  #25


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

Paterson 1 wrote -  It ain't 1957 and CHUM goes rock and roll 24/7 and has a new 50,000 watt transmitter and more than quadruples it's ratings overnight, leaving Toronto's other three or four stations scratching their heads wondering what happened...

In actual fact, when CHUM 1050 switched to Top 50 radio in May 1957, they had only just gotten an increase to 2500 watts.  CHUM didn't get 50,000 watts until 1964.

Last edited by Doug Thompson (September 11, 2020 10:18 am)

 

September 11, 2020 3:25 pm  #26


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

For those who want a closer look at the numbers divided by different demos (as well as other markets), scroll down to the chart on the Bray & Associates page

 

September 16, 2020 11:45 am  #27


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

CIDC 103.5 was broadcasting in HD but ceased a few weeks ago. Spoke to the station engineer at the time and he said they were doing some antenna work and then the HD would be on again. It was for a few days and now nothing. Still poor sound quality here in the east end of Toronto. With HD, the sound was much improved. Doesn't make much business sense to spend $100K or more on upgrades for HD and then not use it.

Last edited by Hrick (September 16, 2020 11:47 am)

 

September 16, 2020 11:53 am  #28


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

Hrick wrote:

CIDC 103.5 was broadcasting in HD but ceased a few weeks ago. Spoke to the station engineer at the time and he said they were doing some antenna work and then the HD would be on again. It was for a few days and now nothing. Still poor sound quality here in the east end of Toronto. With HD, the sound was much improved. Doesn't make much business sense to spend $100K or more on upgrades for HD and then not use it.

For HD FM radio, would antenna replacement be necessary or can any FM antenna of the past 20 years be used?

 

September 16, 2020 1:11 pm  #29


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

markow202 wrote:

Hrick wrote:

CIDC 103.5 was broadcasting in HD but ceased a few weeks ago. Spoke to the station engineer at the time and he said they were doing some antenna work and then the HD would be on again. It was for a few days and now nothing. Still poor sound quality here in the east end of Toronto. With HD, the sound was much improved. Doesn't make much business sense to spend $100K or more on upgrades for HD and then not use it.

For HD FM radio, would antenna replacement be necessary or can any FM antenna of the past 20 years be used?

There is no such thing as an HD antenna for radio or TV. Any good antenna should do. That was just a gimmick for antenna makers during the analog to digi conversion on TV.
 


Cool Airchecks and More:
http://www.lettheuniverseanswer.com/
 

September 16, 2020 1:22 pm  #30


Re: Mighty Q Once More!

Fitz wrote:

markow202 wrote:

Hrick wrote:

CIDC 103.5 was broadcasting in HD but ceased a few weeks ago. Spoke to the station engineer at the time and he said they were doing some antenna work and then the HD would be on again. It was for a few days and now nothing. Still poor sound quality here in the east end of Toronto. With HD, the sound was much improved. Doesn't make much business sense to spend $100K or more on upgrades for HD and then not use it.

For HD FM radio, would antenna replacement be necessary or can any FM antenna of the past 20 years be used?

There is no such thing as an HD antenna for radio or TV. Any good antenna should do. That was just a gimmick for antenna makers during the analog to digi conversion on TV.
 

Im referring to the transmitting antennas of stations.  For receiving, yes what you said is true.