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April 8, 2021 11:48 am  #61


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

Dale Patterson wrote:

  Those aren't "Oh Wow" songs unless you haven't turned on a radio for the past 50 years 

We shouldn't go too hard on these youngsters, Mr. Patterson, as it's nice to see that some still believe in radio
 

 

April 8, 2021 12:59 pm  #62


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

geo wrote:

Dale Patterson wrote:

  Those aren't "Oh Wow" songs unless you haven't turned on a radio for the past 50 years 

We shouldn't go too hard on these youngsters, Mr. Patterson, as it's nice to see that some still believe in radio
 

I really don't understand why oldies stations are so afraid to go just little deeper on the tunes. Instead of playing "Heat Wave" for the umpteenth time, why not "Quicksand." Or instead of "It's The Same Old Song" by the Four Tops, why not "Shake Me, Wake Me." And don't worry about how old a song is ... as Alan Sniffen says on Rewound Radio, "it's not how old it is, it's how good it is." So play "Hound Dog" by Big Mama Thornton every now and then - it's good!


"Life without echo is really no life at all." - Dan Ingram
 

April 8, 2021 1:05 pm  #63


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

Last weekend, R. Ashby played "(Now and Then There's) A Fool Such as I", the Hank Snow original, and Elvis' cover of it.     It was a glorious occasion

 

April 8, 2021 4:08 pm  #64


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

Bristol wrote:

With all due respect to the veterans on the panel the facts speak for themselves.
Randomly here is a 2 hour log from CHTG the Grand.
50% of the titles are Wow ( not played on GTA stations in that week) indicated with a W

Sister SledgeWe Are Family
W StandellsDirty Water 
Taylor, JamesHandy Man
W ChesterMake My Life A Little Brighter 
King HarvestDancing In The Moonlight 
Cougar, JohnJack & Diane
W NilssonWithout You 
QueenSomebody To Love 
Platinum BlondeCrying Over You 
Rolling StonesMiss You
WJ ohn, EltonLucy In The Sky With Diamonds
W DonovanMellow Yellow 
Withers, BillUse Me 
EmotionsBest Of My Love
W Vee, BobbyThe Night Has A Thousand Eyes
W Stills-Young BandLong May You Run
W Chicago25 Or 6 To 4
W Blues BrothersSoul Man
W Beach BoysIn My Room
W WarThe Cisco Kid 
Parachute ClubRise Up 
Valli, FrankieGrease
WJ ones, TomIt's Not Unusual 
U2I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For 
Benatar, PatRated X 
Creedence Clearwater RevivalBad Moon Rising 
McCartney, Paul & WingsBand On The Run
W Jefferson StarshipWith Your Love
W Moody BluesGo Now 
Cummings, BurtonFine State Of Affairs
W Presley, ElvisBurning Love 
Pagliaro, MichelSome Sing Some Dance
W Wonder, StevieIsn't She Lovely
W Croce, JimBad, Bad Leroy Brown

The closest that list comes to Oh Wow is The Standells as artists but Dirty Water is well known but Why Pick On Me would be wow. 

Also Long May You Run by NY might be less played in the US but in Canada it is a multi format CanCon staple. 
 

Last edited by Fitz (April 8, 2021 4:09 pm)


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April 8, 2021 4:21 pm  #65


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

Dale Patterson wrote:

geo wrote:

Dale Patterson wrote:

  Those aren't "Oh Wow" songs unless you haven't turned on a radio for the past 50 years 

We shouldn't go too hard on these youngsters, Mr. Patterson, as it's nice to see that some still believe in radio
 

I really don't understand why oldies stations are so afraid to go just little deeper on the tunes. Instead of playing "Heat Wave" for the umpteenth time, why not "Quicksand." Or instead of "It's The Same Old Song" by the Four Tops, why not "Shake Me, Wake Me." And don't worry about how old a song is ... as Alan Sniffen says on Rewound Radio, "it's not how old it is, it's how good it is." So play "Hound Dog" by Big Mama Thornton every now and then - it's good!

I have some wonderful air checks from small and medium markets in Canada from 1967-70 and some are posted to the site. AM stations with a playlist much wider than even FM's by 1977. They play The Youngblood's song Quicksand on a date prior to their 1969 top ten hit. I believe their only top 40 record at the time was Grizzly Bear. They play a version of The Doors Crystal Ship as done by The Joyride. The Merry-go-round, the British Mod Beats and on and on.




 


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April 8, 2021 7:21 pm  #66


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

geo wrote:

Dale Patterson wrote:

  Those aren't "Oh Wow" songs unless you haven't turned on a radio for the past 50 years 

We shouldn't go too hard on these youngsters, Mr. Patterson, as it's nice to see that some still believe in radio
 

Careful grandad, you are only as old as you think you are. Young enough to have seen Presley on Sullivan, the Beatles at the Forum and enjoyed some weed with the Airplane and Dead in '67.
 

 

April 8, 2021 7:53 pm  #67


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

Bristol wrote:

geo wrote:

Dale Patterson wrote:

  Those aren't "Oh Wow" songs unless you haven't turned on a radio for the past 50 years 

We shouldn't go too hard on these youngsters, Mr. Patterson, as it's nice to see that some still believe in radio
 

Careful grandad, you are only as old as you think you are. Young enough to have seen Presley on Sullivan, the Beatles at the Forum and enjoyed some weed with the Airplane and Dead in '67.
 

Are you serious Bristol.

The Presley event predates me being able to remember that but on the same set of tapes that I referenced up thread I found this 1967 interview with members of the Dead and Airplane when they played O'Keeffe. I was too young to attend at the time but was aware of the airplane via Somebody to Love and White Rabbit. I uploaded it the audio to YT. 




 


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April 8, 2021 10:04 pm  #69


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

=12px>> Careful grandad, you are only as old as you think you are. Young enough to have seen Presley on Sullivan, the Beatles at the Forum and enjoyed some weed with the Airplane and Dead in '67.

I wish I had seen Presley on Sullivan, but I was only three years old. Never saw the Beatles in person and at 14, was too young to have gone to Monterrey in '67. Would've been nice though.


"Life without echo is really no life at all." - Dan Ingram
 

April 9, 2021 9:20 am  #70


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

When I was growing up, the "Beautiful Music" format was extremely popular with my parent's generation. They are gone now and so is the format. CKOT in Tillsonburg was the last station in Southern Ontario programming that format [Correct me if I am wrong] until Rogers took over in 2017 or 2018. When the Baby Boomers pass on, will the Classic Rock/Classic Hits format disappear with them? Perhaps being replaced with Classic Rap/Hip Hop or best of the 90's/2000's/2010's.

 

April 9, 2021 3:42 pm  #71


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

Thanks for this, the article brings up a lot of valid points about music testing.  I've often jokingly put forth the notion that perhaps we should see what type of score 7 seconds of dead air would get.  So while the methodology is far from perfect it's the current barometer in the radio business.  Again, my main point was that there is a lot of CanCon that doesn't test well and it's not one single test or one single format.  CanCon unto itself isn't bad but forcing stations to play 35% or often 40% causes a lot of bad CanCon to get on the air.  Also mentioned in the article was that the author heard "Somebody's Watching Me" in the same time span on subsequent days.  I don't think that's a result of the underlying rotational approach to music scheduling, but more sloppy editing by the Music Director.  Also, that particular song stands as an excellent example of a flaw in the AMT approach, the hook of the song has the MJ vocals and is quite good, the rest of the song isn't great.  So, as a result, the song tests quite well because of the 7 second hook.  So, I guess I would say that in instances like this that PDs and MDs should realize this and not even play that song at all.
 

 

April 9, 2021 7:07 pm  #72


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

mace wrote:

When I was growing up, the "Beautiful Music" format was extremely popular with my parent's generation. They are gone now and so is the format. CKOT in Tillsonburg was the last station in Southern Ontario programming that format [Correct me if I am wrong] until Rogers took over in 2017 or 2018. When the Baby Boomers pass on, will the Classic Rock/Classic Hits format disappear with them? Perhaps being replaced with Classic Rap/Hip Hop or best of the 90's/2000's/2010's.

In twenty years or so, you'll be lucky to hear any 20th-century music on terrestrial radio. Madonna will sound as dated then as Connie Francis is today.
 

Last edited by Dale Patterson (April 9, 2021 7:11 pm)


"Life without echo is really no life at all." - Dan Ingram
 

April 9, 2021 8:57 pm  #73


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

I don't know about all of this "bad cancon" getting on air that has been brought up on many posts.  Examples, and are they gold selections, current music or both?  And this supposedly bad music is hurting stations how?  Listeners complaining, or the are the focus groups.   If these songs are so dreadful, then don't play them.

The CAB and you by extension, seem to be advocating that Canadian stations sound more or less just the same musically as the US. That would be a strange model to follow since US radio has many issues, some more serious than here. Current music on American radio isn't exactly stellar either.  Odd how many of the biggest selling artists for years have been Canadian and many with cancon hits, even on Billboard.

 Getting back to testing, how many people are from the GTA that are scoring these songs? Who chooses what songs you want scored?  Do people listen to all of the song? Is data from other markets used?  Are these people paid anything?  What is their motivation for taking part, and how were they found or did they find you? Are the same people used every week? Do you replenish with new listeners and how often?  You hired a company to do all this I trust?  What happens when someone doesn't fit the profile or demo of your station, but is a listener, do they take part? Do these scores matter?  

What really hasn't been brought up by anyone in this long and hopefully interesting thread would be the sorry state of music.  Music overall doesn't sell well and the music business has been hurting for years.  Interest in general popular music sales wise is nothing like it even was 15 years ago.

Consider the 50% decrease in the Grammy TV ratings a few months back.  The American Music Awards had over 12 million viewers not long ago, and last year 6.7 million viewers. These are no longer "event" programs.  So interest in music and current artists is either low, or a lot of current music doesn't test very well.  And the JUNO's?  Well with CTV no longer producing, prospects are not great with CBC in charge.

My main points were that the CAB is on the wrong track with advocating more consolidation of radio and frequencies. Also they seem to want only international Canadian artists played to make up their lower 25% cancon proposal.  And any song as long as it was recorded by a Canadian qualifies.   So there would be little incentive to play new domestic artists or songs...unless it has been noticed by US radio and likely played there first, which still happens a lot.  I give you Drake, Tate McRea, The Weeknd, Carly Jepson, Shinia Twain, Daniel Caesar and others, all with cancon hits that all broke first in the US or elsewhere. 

And my original point was that cancon has not hurt radio ratings or revenue.  So far even during the pandemic stations have been managing,  Our large conglomerates are profitable and none have had the financial difficulties seen in other countries.   And whether cancon was 10% or stays 35% will have no negative impact, ratings or revenue, just like it hasn't for 50 years.
 
Radio's current problems do not revolve around cancon, and I am not against a lower level and more flexibility. Other than the US most countries do have regulations for radio to play domestic artists.  However just because the US doesn't do this doesn't mean we should automatically do the same.

Last edited by paterson1 (April 9, 2021 9:52 pm)

 

April 11, 2021 10:35 am  #74


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

Dale Patterson wrote:

mace wrote:

When I was growing up, the "Beautiful Music" format was extremely popular with my parent's generation. They are gone now and so is the format. CKOT in Tillsonburg was the last station in Southern Ontario programming that format [Correct me if I am wrong] until Rogers took over in 2017 or 2018. When the Baby Boomers pass on, will the Classic Rock/Classic Hits format disappear with them? Perhaps being replaced with Classic Rap/Hip Hop or best of the 90's/2000's/2010's.

In twenty years or so, you'll be lucky to hear any 20th-century music on terrestrial radio. Madonna will sound as dated then as Connie Francis is today.
 

Alan Cross appears to be channeling Dale's sentiment with his latest online column. It's bound to upset those in a certain age group. 

"Gen X is just going to have to come to terms with the fact that they’re the new classic rock generation. You’ve grown up, kids. Sorry about that."

Sorry Gen X, but the music of your youth is now the new classic rock

     Thread Starter
 

April 11, 2021 11:10 am  #75


Re: Cdn. Assn. Of Broadcasters Pleas For CanCon Rules Reduction To CRTC

We shall fight on the seas and oceans
We shall fight on the landing grounds
We shall fight on the beaches
We shall fight in the fields and in the streets
We shall fight in the hills
WE SHALL NEVER SURRENDER